Construction costs are currently skyrocketing

  • Erstellt am 2021-04-23 10:46:58

Oetti

2022-10-05 11:46:19
  • #1


What speaks against converting excess electricity and storing it in the form of hydrogen? Hydrogen is produced using electricity. The hydrogen can already partly be fed directly into the gas grid today or converted beforehand by methanation into synthetic natural gas.

The gas storage facilities are already in place, and there is desperately a search for alternatives to Russian gas. Is that then not a solution?
 

WilderSueden

2022-10-05 12:42:49
  • #2
Basically nothing except the not-so-great efficiency and that it is not market-ready on the necessary scale. The government talks about building capacities for 5 gigawatts of electrolysis power by 2030. For comparison, at some point this summer, a peak of 40 gigawatts of photovoltaic electricity was fed in. And then there is the economic question of whether it is worthwhile to run an electrolysis plant as a gap filler.
 

tokoman

2022-10-05 13:09:46
  • #3
A hydrogen industry that could, for example, supply BASF in Ludwigshafen in large quantities would cost something around 500 to 800 billion. The solar radiation and the necessary area to develop such infrastructure would be available in northern Africa. Then the hydrogen would have to be carbonized. The methane or ethane produced in this way can then also be transported in pipelines, which is technically and economically not easily possible with hydrogen.

Problem one with this story: transferring 800 billion to Libya or Morocco and creating dependencies; the next Gaddafi would quickly have his hand back on the valve.

Problem two: about 0.2 kWh of gaseous energy is produced from one kWh of photovoltaic electricity. Here at home, it is converted back into electricity with a gas power plant with about 60% efficiency.

Hydrogen has been hyped for 15 years but will never establish itself as a significant energy supply...
 

Trademark

2022-10-05 14:01:02
  • #4


It will probably still be cheaper than fueling. Combustion engines are just insanely inefficient.



Would BASF then use hydrogen where gas is needed in production? Is that a combustion process? Because as far as I understood, for heat and power they somehow only use half of the gas.
 

WilderSueden

2022-10-05 14:03:31
  • #5
Regarding the costs, I would now assume that they will decrease as soon as appropriate systems are built everywhere. Due to economies of scale, you cannot simply extrapolate the costs of pilot plants. The bigger problem I see is in the energy source. The sun only shines on average half a day, so where does the energy for electrolysis come from at night? In addition, there are all the weather-related fluctuations. Here, corresponding excess capacities are needed again to ultimately produce the actual demand.
 

Oetti

2022-10-05 14:19:03
  • #6

So I interpret your statement as saying that it is technically possible. However, currently not economically viable.

We have enough space for photovoltaics in Germany; I don't even have to look to North Africa for that. Since so far only about 11% of all roofs here have a photovoltaic system installed, conversely 89% are still without and could still be used. That is, for me, a solid figure. If I now also think of tricks like possible carport roofings, vertical modules along the highways, etc., then we really have more than enough space here to become energy self-sufficient.

And then there would be no problem with transport or pipelines either. Build small power plants locally that convert and store surpluses. Put a combined heat and power plant next to it, and off you go.
 

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