Why don't construction prices go down?

  • Erstellt am 2023-05-15 08:17:32

i_b_n_a_n

2023-10-03 18:24:12
  • #1
Yesterday in a conversation with a customer (architect), he said that the shell construction price of a single-family house is now up to 100k lower. There would be "fighting" over orders again. We are planning a new building (office) in about 2-3 years. He said that currently it would be feasible for about (of course from … to) 2k per sqm.
 

Sunshine387

2023-10-03 19:45:39
  • #2
With us, newly built multi-family houses from 2021 are also offered at prices with occupancy in December 24 for 4000€ per m2. Prices for new apartments do not actually go much lower, but the peak price of 4500€ per m2 from summer 22 is behind us.
 

xMisterDx

2023-10-04 08:47:38
  • #3


Yeah... as is well known, I built for 2,000 EUR/m². So a turnkey house, plus a lot of own work in the interior finishing. Without the stupid price adjustment at the end of 2021 and an insanely expensive foundation due to poor soil conditions, it would have been almost 400 EUR/m² less. I never understood where 3,000 EUR/m² and up come from...
 

FF2677

2023-10-04 15:21:31
  • #4

Here in the small Bavarian district town (between Ulm and Augsburg):
Two large multi-family houses are being built. Location, on the one hand top, edge of town, forest in the back. On the other side, many busy streets directly.
On the internet, prices starting at 4800€ per m² are advertised.
In reality, they want about 5500€/m² for 2-4 room apartments
Penthouse apartments for 6200€/m²
Occupancy, end of 2024.
 

dertill

2023-10-06 09:00:03
  • #5
Since I know the costs for construction, connection to, and expansion of local heating networks from my own experience (source: me)


The meter of pipe laid in a trench ranges between 100 euros (DN 50) and 300 € (DN 250). In addition, there are civil engineering costs for the trench at the same level, planning costs, and in existing buildings the largest item: surface restoration. The actual total costs for house connections through front gardens range between 200-300€, depending on whether digging is necessary or if boring is possible. Main lines with DN200-400 usually cost around 1000-1500€ / meter in sidewalks or roadways. It is sensible to plan fiber optic / electricity or other utilities at the same time to use synergies (surface work is expensive).

For the house connection, besides the meters, there is of course the house entry (500€) and the network-side connection (also 500€), as well as a district heating transfer station (single-family house 5000-7000€ including installation). Overall, the connection, if the pipe is in the street in front of the door, is about 10k€. If the network meets the requirements, there are also subsidies from BAFA for this.


That should be about right for many small and medium-sized municipalities. In large cities, this varies greatly. Kiel, Hamburg, and Frankfurt have large district heating networks; other large cities hardly any.


True. For the heat transition, either district heating must be introduced nationwide or the power grid must be upgraded. In rural areas, a heat network for existing single-family homes will not be economically feasible to build or operate. Therefore, the power grid will have to be adapted for heat pumps there. Many municipalities carry out municipal heat planning together with power grid planning.

The challenge is also to get the heat networks green / renewable. Almost all large heat networks are operated almost 100% based on coal or natural gas. For example, converting Hamburg’s district heating to renewable sources is the real crux.



Most municipal officials, seeing the costs for the first time—which will have to be spent by 2040/45—will have to swallow hard at first. The necessary effort depends heavily on the existing buildings and will vary significantly here as well, but in short: classic financing models with the equity ratios actually prescribed for network operators and municipal companies will not suffice.


The supplier usually makes an offer with a term of 10 years and a fixed price with a price adjustment clause. The clause generally takes into account the development of fuel prices of the fuel used and the unit and wage cost indices. The supplier’s costs will almost certainly develop along these indices. In addition, there are (increasingly large) uncertainties regarding requirements for heat supply. What is the supplier allowed to operate where and how, and what share of renewable energy do I need for a renewal in 5 years? Reporting requirements for suppliers are increasing, and speculative price adjustment clauses have long been banned. In general, a legally secure price adjustment clause without the possibility of litigation by the connected user is increasingly a matter of luck. Even expensive law firms no longer want to promise legal certainty. This inevitably requires reserves for retrofitting, etc., so district heating cannot simply be given away.

District heating is not always cheaper than individual supply and certainly not a panacea. In densely populated areas (multi-family houses, commercial), however, it can be easier and cheaper to implement than individual object supply—this will also be the conclusion of all the municipal heat planning.

By the way, the latter is a lot of "engineering by PowerPoint" by doctors and professors. With some experience and knowledge of the building stock on site, 90% of the statements could be made just as well without fancy scenario development and crystal-ball price development blah-blah.


Connection and usage obligations are hardly ever imposed by municipalities anymore. The possibilities for litigation here are also very extensive. Usually, in new construction, the allocation of construction costs is included in the land price. In existing buildings, a survey is usually conducted beforehand, and only after a contract is signed by enough users per line is expansion carried out. Or operators take the risk because they assume that relevant demand will exist in 1-5 years.
 

xMisterDx

2023-10-06 10:30:06
  • #6
Yes, I believe many people are not really aware of everything involved. Cutting up the road, removing the gutter and curb, lifting the sidewalk, possibly even digging up a public green strip... then putting in pipes and restoring everything to how it was before. Even if it’s only 5-10 meters, you need road builders, civil engineers, pavers, landscape gardeners... they all have travel times, they all bring their special equipment...

Above all, it’s one thing: expensive, expensive, expensive...

The expensive part of civil engineering is not the pipe. A 100mm KG pipe costs around 3.50 EUR/m at the hardware store for the average person.
The expensive part is everything around it, especially labor costs and machines... for one hour of mini-excavator use to spread a bit of gravel, a truckload of gravel, and laying 30m of KG pipe to the cistern through the garden, my civil engineer wants around 2,400 EUR. Pure material costs? Maybe 300 EUR...
 

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