Air-water heat pump current consumption and data

  • Erstellt am 2020-09-29 11:06:43

guckuck2

2021-04-30 13:57:41
  • #1


Of course everything works on electricity. But no one claims that this has to happen immediately. We are talking about nationwide infrastructure here; it is not there overnight. Transitions have to be managed.
But it is important to start somewhere to initiate this change over decades!
It's like the criticism that e-cars are bad because the charging infrastructure is missing. Was there already a network of gas stations when the first vehicles hit the road? No, it grew. Sometimes there are too many cars, sometimes too many gas stations, etc., in the long run, it balances out. You have to endure the intermediate states.

Who actually says that gas, gasoline, and diesel could not be burned centrally and used to generate electricity? That is why pipelines and gas turbine power plants are still needed today (which, by the way, can be converted to biogas or H2). This is called transition technology.
A gasoline engine throws away 70% of the energy in the fuel as heat. That is incredibly inefficient. Convert that into electricity and run e-cars with it. This is not the final goal, but for the transition, it is legitimate and practical.

Even Greta says nuclear power is good. Because without secure supply, no change will be accepted. Exactly right. It's a bitter pill but better than burning coal.
Extremists who say "shut everything down immediately, replace everything, throw everything away," etc., are just crazy and unrealistic, but that does not make the concern itself untrue.



Photovoltaics initially have nothing to do with gas heating.
The (solar thermal) collectors are at least unfriendly to the wallet, they really never pay off.
And of course, a heat pump consumes less climate-damaging energy than burning gas, the figures have already been mentioned here.



That is primarily whataboutism, as it is called nowadays.
One thing has nothing to do with the other, and just because one thing is bad, the other does not have to be bad or remain bad.

There is undoubtedly a lot of work and many cogs that can (and must) be turned.
What is important is to start.
Maybe not with drinking straws, dear EU, that is just greenwashing.

The whining about our industries, which were important for the last decades, also gets on my nerves.
People cling to past successes, although today, even a moderately developed country can build cars, burn coal, or produce chemicals. There is no exclusivity anymore.
But the climate change issue is a growth market. Instead of checking panel gaps on cars, we should invest there. Then we have the knowledge and technology to sell worldwide. In the growth market digitization, we have essentially already lost.
THAT is Germany’s strength to be used, not a run-of-the-mill product that today already comes 80% from the Far East and is at best assembled in Germany.



We start everywhere and stop when we are finished or dead.



As you said yourself, you can calculate anything the way you want.
Taking the old power mix and using the worst heat pump can be one tactic.
But that is quite far from reality.



I see.



I know nothing about the ban in Austria either, and it doesn’t matter.
But take a look at how oil heating was dealt with in Germany (or recently old stoves/fireplaces), that was not long ago.
First, there are bans for new buildings. Then transition periods, hardship regulations. And at the latest when Erna dies and the house changes owner, the replacement obligation is active. Then it’s over.
It should also be socially acceptable. That’s why you have to start early to hit the brakes so that there is an end in sight. The paths are nevertheless long.



The decision was taken away from me too. In a system comparison, I might also have gone for gas because of the investment. Building budgets are simply limited.

Today, I think differently. CO2 pricing has started and even the CDU path is pre-marked. It will be accelerated, but even if it remains as it is now, every year 3-7 cents will be added to fuel. Every year 15-20% on the gas price for the house. At the same time, they want to rein in electricity prices.

But I believe that if I search long enough in your posts, I will find typical, blanket criticisms of photovoltaics and e-cars.
Now you yourself sit in an e-car and enjoy it, photovoltaics are planned.
Never say never ;-)
 

Tolentino

2021-04-30 14:21:56
  • #2
So I did not intend to praise gas and demonize heat pumps. I just wanted to say that a heat pump is not automatically, basically a self-runner, more environmentally friendly.



No, unfortunately not. The HSL initially commissioned by my general planner canceled the cooperation on my project after I asked if he would execute according to a plan from my TGA engineer. He simply wanted to work according to the standard procedure and DIN with a minimum 10 cm installation distance and refused to go below that. He also messed up the ventilation planning and positioned the exhaust air in the utility room too close to the door (overflow). When I looked for a replacement, I had one heating engineer who, after reviewing the documents, also said it was not feasible or would be done very differently and declined. Another said they definitely do their own planning, and a third said they would see. In the end, only 3 out of about 12 contacted submitted an offer under the conditions. If I exclude those who did not respond at all, it was 3 out of 7. So more than 50% of the heating engineers are too proud to accept someone else’s planning (yes, I know, not representative).
 

Daniel-Sp

2021-04-30 17:01:06
  • #3
Whereby they also do not plan themselves but either build "as always" or have it planned by the system manufacturer of the underfloor heating (as happened in my case). So, false pride... and great intellectual laziness.

Regarding the energy balance of gas. Here, the big corporations only consider the CO2 emissions from the combustion process. The transport losses in the large pipelines from Russia are concealed. However, the escaping gas is even more harmful to the climate than the CO2 produced during combustion. If you look for it, you can find calculations that bring the climate balance of gas down to the level of hard coal. What I want to say is, you can make anything look good or bad; you just have to parameterize the corresponding calculation...
 

Bookstar

2021-04-30 18:23:35
  • #4

I am very open to technology and rather against ban policies as driven by the Greens. I also agree that there must be a change and not a stop from one day to the next. Germany is not the center of the world either.

There is no word that annoys me as much as whataboutism. Every 50-year-old housewife argues with it without knowing the meaning. I plead for it to be the un-word of the year!
 

Tolentino

2021-04-30 20:12:32
  • #5
I already knew what it meant. Among other rhetorical tricks, I called it "Schopenhauerisms." He actually wrote a manuscript on it: Eristische Dialektik (today often published under the title: "The Art of Being Right"). Recommended, not necessarily to apply it yourself, but to recognize the tricks of discussion partners. Personally, I do not see a discussion as a competition about who is right, but as a process of gaining insight.
 

guckuck2

2021-04-30 23:41:54
  • #6
To offer an alternative: One can also be bothered by "Whataboutism" if this is (rightly) regularly accused of them ...
 

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