Gas prices - Where is gas still affordable?

Hi,

Here in numbers:
Burning gas for heat: 100% efficiency
Gas power plant + heat pump: 40% * 500% = 200%

It would be nice if the values were like that...

Realistically rather:
Burning gas for heat: 105% efficiency (yes, over 100%, this is due to condensing technology and the definition of the heating value)
Gas power plant (without CHP) 35-40% * electricity grid transmission efficiency 90-94% * heat pump "efficiency" 3.5-4 about 130%.
Yes, somewhat better than the boiler, but not by a factor of 2. And in winter, an air-source heat pump does not achieve 3.5-4, but more likely only 2.5-3, which then is about 95%, so rather somewhat worse than the boiler.

The world is unfortunately not that simple. Although I agree that from a purely ecological point of view, a combination of renewable electricity generation and power to gas (electricity to hydrogen), storing it and then burning in gas power plants and heating only with heat pumps would be ideal. But you don't want to pay for that....

Best regards,

Andreas

oh, for electricity we have a "transmission efficiency," but not for gas? And for gas you calculate with the highest efficiency that can be found for devices, but for the heat pump rather with the lower average? Interesting...

Hi,
Gas leaks are quite rare, so not much is lost. They put in a lot of effort because there is always bad press whenever a place burns down somewhere.
Sure, the 105% is an absurd value, but it simply comes from the definition of the calorific value and the higher heating value. A gas turbine has exhaust temperatures of several hundred degrees and is thus far from that. Together with a steam turbine, you reach 60%. The world record is still held by the Siemens H-class, which achieves 60.75% efficiency with a downstream steam turbine. But then the fast controllability ends, as you can only regulate the steam cycle very slowly.
The efficiencies of heat pumps are a source of constant discussion. On the internet, I mostly find values for the annual performance factor from 2.5-3.5 for air-water heat pumps up to 4-4.5 for brine-water heat pumps.
The value in my rough calculation above is therefore also rather at the upper level of the assumptions.
But it is not at all about 5-10% better or worse efficiency. Personal usage behavior is much more important. I always find statements like "The heat pump is easily twice as good in the chain of effects as a gas heating system" quite nonsensical. That is simply not true. They are not that far apart, and you can make both versions look good.
Whereas the heat pump is probably slightly better in reality and will likely be the future for good reason. But only as long as you use a comparatively clean gas power plant as the electricity source. If you calculate with electricity from a lignite power plant, your heat pump will be quite a dirt generator...

Best regards,

Andreas

Gas leaks

I think meant that gas transport also does not have an efficiency of 100%, but rather (not insignificant) losses occur during transport (pipe roughness), compression, and also expansion (Joule-Thomson effect). "Leaks" in the sense of not fully closed pipelines are actually quite rare. But the diffusion of PE(X) materials is indeed not entirely negligible. Especially since methane is known to be incredibly harmful to the climate.

Methane contains enough H so that even the "Green local association" gives its OK, right?

Then long-chain hydrocarbons are THE new stars in the eco-sky!

Then long-chain hydrocarbons are THE new stars on the eco-sky!

If I suck the C out of the air, it's even climate neutral ;)