OWLer
2021-07-16 13:00:55
- #1
I'm looking forward to that too! Do we actually already have our self-help group?
Location of city villa or single-family house on 500 m2 plot - rectangular
- Erstellt am 2020-01-17 18:03:26
Tolentino
2021-07-16 13:04:41
- #2
Hehe, not yet. First of all, it won’t be heating season yet.
This winter we can all get started then. :eek:
This winter we can all get started then. :eek:
Tolentino
2021-09-01 15:35:59
- #3
Update: Heizi said, it doesn't matter!Actually, the heating technician received the planning in advance and did not explicitly say anything about the external position of the sensor.
So, already another month and a half gone. I can hardly believe it.
What happened in the meantime:
Interior plaster was applied and dried slowly, weather-dependent rather poorly than well. My plumber was finally allowed in and did the rough-in work. The following photos give an impression of both:
K1300S
2021-09-01 16:08:04
- #4
I would say that too if I didn't have to live in the house and just wanted to finish quickly. ;)Update: Heizi said, it doesn't matter!
Tolentino
2021-09-01 16:18:22
- #5
By the way, my neighbor-and-co-builder, who is building with the same construction company but managed to keep the standard HSLer from BU, did not get insulated drinking water pipes. I'm curious if he will hear the water noises... Especially since their main bathroom on the upper floor is above the kitchen...
However, the construction manager of the BU immediately filed a concern report regarding my second outdoor water tap and a washbasin pipe in the exterior walls. Because that violates the energy concept. The HSL master said, strictly speaking, that’s true, that spot will always insulate a bit less than the rest of the wall. But on the one hand, the area is very small, and on the other hand, the pipe is insulated. There will probably be no moisture damage, especially since we have ventilation.
I would have liked to be informed about that. In the utility room, they could have laid the pipes on the surface if necessary. Well, shoulder shrug and on we go...
Next phase:
Almost simultaneously, the exterior plaster came, and I laid the under-insulation.
I nearly despaired over it. The whole huge amount of pipes of different heights led to a patchwork that was really dreadful. On top of that, I had the crazy idea to use better insulation than in the plan (not only to compensate for my slotted exterior walls). I almost discarded it again due to rising raw material prices. Then came along with his insulation, which he no longer needed.
So I went to him with a flatbed and loaded up. Very nice man, very pleasant contact, although I had imagined him differently from the forum. Many thanks again happily again!
So if I now whine and complain, it’s not against him, but rather against myself and my lofty thoughts.
The following floor structure was actually intended by the planner of the BUs:
Inside
20mm finished floor
70mm screed
30mm tack strip EPS 040
100mm EPS 035
5mm bitumen sheet
200mm concrete
Outside
U-value (according to Ubakus) 0.258 W/m²K
My planned structure on the ground floor (different again on the upper floor, less thermal, more sound insulation) but not so relevant
Inside
20mm finished floor
70mm screed
30mm tack strip EPS 045
40mm PIR 028 from Pagoni
40mm PIR 028 from Pagoni (offset from the upper layer)
20mm EPS 040 as height compensation layer
0.2mm PE film to protect the EPS from bitumen (read somewhere).
5mm bitumen
200mm concrete
Outside
U-value (Ubakus) an amazing 0.233 W/m²K
I wanted to fill the pipe routes with Perlite so that no cavities would form under the insulation. Unlike the bonded loose fill that my HSLer had in the offer, Perlite would also insulate against heat and thus create even fewer thermal bridges. Discussed the structure with the HSLer and an expert, and both gave their approval. The HSLer was even quite glad not to have to procure insulation himself.
What I didn’t know and no one told me (until it was already too late): Perlite must not be used only for pipe routes, because it only takes on a bonded form over the entire surface (due to interlocking and dust). Normal Perlite can slip under the adjacent insulation boards if not laid over the full surface. This makes the position of the board unstable on the one hand and on the other hand, the cavity obviously is not safely filled over the long term.
So I looked again for what could be done. There is Perlite with bitumen, but then I had the warning in my mind about the combination of bitumen with EPS and thought: "no...".
Eventually, I settled on hard wax-coated Perlite. The grains stick together under pressure and thus form a bonded form.
Very expensive stuff. You have to get it on short notice. Actually found dealers, one of them in Berlin.
That stuff creates a lot of dust; you should wear a mask when working with it, otherwise coughing fits are guaranteed!
So what had to happen, happened: with the big ventilation pipes, the cavities were so large that Perlite consumption was too high. The amount planned for the entire build was used up halfway through the upper floor alone.
So I reordered again, which cost time again.
In the main bathroom there were so many pipes that I was already dreading cutting everything out. But I had already ordered normal Perlite since I didn’t know about the bonded form. So I simply filled the bathroom with normal Perlite over the full surface and at least compensated for the electrical and drinking water pipes. Then laid the thick 50mm impact sound EPS boards on top and done.
Then continued on the ground floor with Pagoni insulation. Nasty: it was originally intended as roof insulation and (mineral fiber) fleece laminated. That makes it harder to cut and it pricks everywhere on your skin.
Because I had two layers of PIR and another layer of EPS, I increased my work by 50% at short notice. Because the electricians partly let pipes cross (even where not really necessary, if they had just made a plan beforehand), the 20mm EPS was not enough to compensate everywhere, and I had to cut PIR as well.
Another problem: even the hard wax-coated Perlite moved under the insulation boards if the pieces were too small.
Then I bought assembly adhesive and always glued the boards to the PE film on the pipes.
After 3 vacation days and 3 weekend days and just the office finished and only one weekend left before the HSLer wanted to lay the tack strip and underfloor heating, I knew I couldn’t manage it alone.
Called my father-in-law, he could help on Sunday. After half of the living, dining, and kitchen area, he came and hustled around.
"Loose fill everywhere in the pipe routes? Quite exaggerated! With all your boards it’s stable enough and air is also there to insulate. So after the warm room (that’s what it should at least become) just laid boards in the hallway. Might backfire someday, but I was close to collapse."
When he left again, utility room and guest bathroom were still left.
HSLer could start the next day already laying the tack strip upstairs and downstairs where already done.
On Monday afternoon until late at night I filled the rest. Again, only Perlite as compensation layer 60mm and just one layer of PIR (U-value 0.28).
But overall I’m still better than the plan. In those two rooms, snug warmth isn’t so important anyway.
Now my wife is urging me, I have to go. More later...
However, the construction manager of the BU immediately filed a concern report regarding my second outdoor water tap and a washbasin pipe in the exterior walls. Because that violates the energy concept. The HSL master said, strictly speaking, that’s true, that spot will always insulate a bit less than the rest of the wall. But on the one hand, the area is very small, and on the other hand, the pipe is insulated. There will probably be no moisture damage, especially since we have ventilation.
I would have liked to be informed about that. In the utility room, they could have laid the pipes on the surface if necessary. Well, shoulder shrug and on we go...
Next phase:
Almost simultaneously, the exterior plaster came, and I laid the under-insulation.
I nearly despaired over it. The whole huge amount of pipes of different heights led to a patchwork that was really dreadful. On top of that, I had the crazy idea to use better insulation than in the plan (not only to compensate for my slotted exterior walls). I almost discarded it again due to rising raw material prices. Then came along with his insulation, which he no longer needed.
So I went to him with a flatbed and loaded up. Very nice man, very pleasant contact, although I had imagined him differently from the forum. Many thanks again happily again!
So if I now whine and complain, it’s not against him, but rather against myself and my lofty thoughts.
The following floor structure was actually intended by the planner of the BUs:
Inside
20mm finished floor
70mm screed
30mm tack strip EPS 040
100mm EPS 035
5mm bitumen sheet
200mm concrete
Outside
U-value (according to Ubakus) 0.258 W/m²K
My planned structure on the ground floor (different again on the upper floor, less thermal, more sound insulation) but not so relevant
Inside
20mm finished floor
70mm screed
30mm tack strip EPS 045
40mm PIR 028 from Pagoni
40mm PIR 028 from Pagoni (offset from the upper layer)
20mm EPS 040 as height compensation layer
0.2mm PE film to protect the EPS from bitumen (read somewhere).
5mm bitumen
200mm concrete
Outside
U-value (Ubakus) an amazing 0.233 W/m²K
I wanted to fill the pipe routes with Perlite so that no cavities would form under the insulation. Unlike the bonded loose fill that my HSLer had in the offer, Perlite would also insulate against heat and thus create even fewer thermal bridges. Discussed the structure with the HSLer and an expert, and both gave their approval. The HSLer was even quite glad not to have to procure insulation himself.
What I didn’t know and no one told me (until it was already too late): Perlite must not be used only for pipe routes, because it only takes on a bonded form over the entire surface (due to interlocking and dust). Normal Perlite can slip under the adjacent insulation boards if not laid over the full surface. This makes the position of the board unstable on the one hand and on the other hand, the cavity obviously is not safely filled over the long term.
So I looked again for what could be done. There is Perlite with bitumen, but then I had the warning in my mind about the combination of bitumen with EPS and thought: "no...".
Eventually, I settled on hard wax-coated Perlite. The grains stick together under pressure and thus form a bonded form.
Very expensive stuff. You have to get it on short notice. Actually found dealers, one of them in Berlin.
That stuff creates a lot of dust; you should wear a mask when working with it, otherwise coughing fits are guaranteed!
So what had to happen, happened: with the big ventilation pipes, the cavities were so large that Perlite consumption was too high. The amount planned for the entire build was used up halfway through the upper floor alone.
So I reordered again, which cost time again.
In the main bathroom there were so many pipes that I was already dreading cutting everything out. But I had already ordered normal Perlite since I didn’t know about the bonded form. So I simply filled the bathroom with normal Perlite over the full surface and at least compensated for the electrical and drinking water pipes. Then laid the thick 50mm impact sound EPS boards on top and done.
Then continued on the ground floor with Pagoni insulation. Nasty: it was originally intended as roof insulation and (mineral fiber) fleece laminated. That makes it harder to cut and it pricks everywhere on your skin.
Because I had two layers of PIR and another layer of EPS, I increased my work by 50% at short notice. Because the electricians partly let pipes cross (even where not really necessary, if they had just made a plan beforehand), the 20mm EPS was not enough to compensate everywhere, and I had to cut PIR as well.
Another problem: even the hard wax-coated Perlite moved under the insulation boards if the pieces were too small.
Then I bought assembly adhesive and always glued the boards to the PE film on the pipes.
After 3 vacation days and 3 weekend days and just the office finished and only one weekend left before the HSLer wanted to lay the tack strip and underfloor heating, I knew I couldn’t manage it alone.
Called my father-in-law, he could help on Sunday. After half of the living, dining, and kitchen area, he came and hustled around.
"Loose fill everywhere in the pipe routes? Quite exaggerated! With all your boards it’s stable enough and air is also there to insulate. So after the warm room (that’s what it should at least become) just laid boards in the hallway. Might backfire someday, but I was close to collapse."
When he left again, utility room and guest bathroom were still left.
HSLer could start the next day already laying the tack strip upstairs and downstairs where already done.
On Monday afternoon until late at night I filled the rest. Again, only Perlite as compensation layer 60mm and just one layer of PIR (U-value 0.28).
But overall I’m still better than the plan. In those two rooms, snug warmth isn’t so important anyway.
Now my wife is urging me, I have to go. More later...
K1300S
2021-09-01 17:46:26
- #6
That is certainly meant positively (for ), right? ;)even though I had imagined it differently from the forum
Are you sure that is really a problem? The adjacent boards should actually, uh, lie flat, namely firmly on the floor, shouldn’t they?Normal perlite can slip under the adjacent insulation boards if not laid fully across the surface.