Our general contractor charged an extra 850 EUR for the concrete pedestal staircase (dimensions according to our specifications). The parquet layer charged another approx. 3,000 EUR for laying it.
Very nice staircase, I like it a lot. I could imagine the same for us . However, I don’t know how much your general contractor originally calculated for it if you added another 1,000 €. If you have more exact numbers, I would really appreciate some info (also gladly via PM)! And that the laying is that expensive is really something. But since we will probably go for softwood, hopefully it will be somewhat cheaper. One more question: how steep is your staircase? That is height and depth/width per step?
Where do you store Christmas decorations, suitcases? I don’t want cleaning stuff and toilet paper storage in the bathroom (if you can even get any). Habits are so different. Reading will be even less with the house. Somehow you get a lot of work yourself. The gallery would be too restless for reading or yoga for me. Kids come and go, and in the living room the husband watches football. There is always life in the house. It won’t be used for playing long. I think during elementary school the rooms become increasingly important.
Really take a look at Pinterest or Dwellinggawker. I think you’ll find inspiration there for lateral thinking like Hampshire suggested.
We have soft suitcases from Eastpak that you can lay really flat on or in large wardrobes. Or under the bed. That was already mentioned here. Christmas decorations: we have a box for that, which can go into the utility room. Or both maybe up to the attic when it becomes walkable. And it would drive me crazy if I had to run through the whole house just for quick cleaning or especially a roll of toilet paper (which I might only notice is missing when I’m already sitting on the toilet ). For us, both are currently stored under the bathroom sink cabinet.
When I read this here, I get a little angry. Being frugal is unfortunately a foreign word for almost everyone here. Being frugal (having to be) means being willing to do without: Then there is simply no dressing room, then the suitcase has to go under the bed, it was always like that, then the royal children have small rooms as well, as they do in rental blocks, then there is only an exposed corner instead of a reading room, then there is no underfloor heating but a radiator, then there is a concrete roof instead of clay tile, then there is a cheap staircase instead of a show staircase, then IKEA instead of Bulthaup, etc.... And there is nothing to criticize about that. Frugal is frugal. -- Be brave. Keep going like this. Don’t let them get to you. K.
Thank you, you speak from my heart. I don’t see the sewing machine as clutter because it really helps save money. I sew a lot myself, repair old clothes or upcycle. That helps us buy less clothes/bags (storage for handbags was already mentioned here; I only have one ) etc.
What would bother me about the floor plan is the proximity of the utility room to the living area. If the washing machine or dryer runs, you constantly hear it on the couch. The open study area is also not so great: if the computer and printer are there and maybe paperwork or an opened package on the desk, it might look untidy. Also, in the evening maybe someone wants to spend time on the computer and the other wants to watch TV, so you disturb each other. My children often prepared presentations on the PC in the study, printing things out, and you are not undisturbed just next door. How is the staircase planned then, is there a free space underneath the stairs from the study? There is hardly any storage upstairs; we have a large closet in the upper hallway with vacuum cleaner and other cleaning supplies/bath items for the upper floor. When the children get older, twice as many “beauty products” will come to the bathroom, and all that stuff has to find a place somewhere.
Best regards, Sabine
Interesting, would you rather swap the guest bathroom and utility room? My idea was that I want as short routes for laundry as possible, so directly from the stairs into the utility room and that there will also be canned goods and juice stored there, so close to the dining table and kitchen. At the moment the washing machine doesn’t really disturb me while watching TV or so, though it’s actually closer in our apartment. Sometimes it’s disturbing upon (waking up and) falling asleep because it is directly next to the bedroom in the bathroom.
The work area is separated in the latest floor plan (attached again) by a wall without door/open passage, which I like because of the wall surface where you can put something. And because of the paper chaos sometimes on the desk, really right. My boyfriend prefers total openness and thinks it’s better without the wall mainly to gain the light from the window next to the work area also for the living space.
We imagine the staircase in the work area similar to the lower half of the attached stair photo, preferably also with a shelf. The upper run will be closed and the railing probably executed as a half-high “wall,” similar to .
We definitely have only one vacuum cleaner for the whole house and it will stand downstairs in the utility room. Bathroom items... as I said, currently all in bathroom, also the two cleaning agents (bath spray and toilet cleaner, no more). When our kids, especially our daughter, want to try more make-up, hair dyes, creams, hairspray or whatever later, we can set up a small makeup corner in her room. I think she will prefer that anyway rather than having it all in the shared bathroom.
The generous hallway upstairs appears open, bright, and friendly. I agree with the OP there. But Kaho’s concerns are not unfounded. The ground floor is open — I also find that good; we have that too. However, with 3 people it really needs retreat options — even more so with 4. Where should the master of the house go when the women's coffee clatch is happening downstairs? Where to go to talk on the phone quietly while the family plays a game at the dining table? We now have a second room with TV, sofa, play area. You don’t want to always flop onto the bed. Wouldn't an extra 3 sqm in the master area be good to create a sitting area or spread out the yoga mat?
To the PC, or the yoga corner upstairs . Most likely he won’t be there anyway because he’s more active and probably climbs or something.
Right now I do my morning exercise there if the house is otherwise empty. But I don’t do plank or morning greeting when people pass by. THAT’s a no-go!
And just because you don’t know what emergency water is good for doesn’t mean the list doesn’t count for you
Um, why should I have a problem if my own family sees me doing the morning greeting? In the gym or yoga class, many more and much stranger people see me...
And emergency water doesn’t mean drinking water? That’s how I understood it. What is it then?
And yes, I can give the tip to think carefully and draw exactly to scale how the table will be placed and whether the walkways around it (i.e. access to the terrace, space between wall/sofa/kitchen) also work when someone is sitting at the table (and not always right at it). We have our sliding door (width 2.6m) at the dining table and afterward realized that it’s not so easy to place the table so that you can also comfortably use the sliding door. This was not so obvious on the plan beforehand. So always draw exactly, maybe also try in the old apartment live.
I wrote somewhere before that everything is to scale, wall thicknesses, windows, and all furniture we plan to take. We don’t yet have a dining table of that size but a much too small one so far. The table to be bought/built can be adapted to the space on site. I will supply a dimensioned floor plan once our planner has calculated and drawn everything. As a rough guide: the width of the living room between stairs and window/south facade is 4.15 m. The window near the sofa is 1.80 m wide, the one at the dining table also plus a 90 cm wide door right next to it.
And yet, I can’t take seriously these experiential values that run through all your floor plan critiques. Because anyone who wants to avoid everything needs a soundproof palace: Often mentioned: where do coats go? Well, an extra wardrobe is great but costs expensive sqm, if you save like us, there are 5 hooks on the wall. That’s it. More is not. And if that’s not enough we put coats on the guest sofa or in the utility room. And we have frequent visitors, and it’s often not enough. Another classic: You hear alternately “the dryer,” “the child,” “the flush”….. yes, that’s true. You hear people. I hear the dishwasher in the living room in the evening. So what... Silent night is a nice song on December 24, but it’s not a life goal for many. Often criticized: Lack of zoning, walking routes, you see each other, disturb each other. Yes, exactly, it’s right when parents notice who comes to visit and how many. And it’s right that teenagers would like to do as they please, but it’s the task of the elders to set boundaries, even if it hurts. Otherwise, you see each other when you live together. Building everyone their retreat is the castle avenue, but some also build Badstrasse.
And to the OP: with your budget you will have to cut back again, I bet. But that must come naturally in your head and heart when prices are on the table. And yes, there is still room… floor-to-ceiling windows with railing, less open below, is structurally simpler and cheaper... we’ll see.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! That someone shares my life reality and attitude here! After all, I like to live together with my family and don’t look for a house where I feel like the sole occupant . And we currently have 16 coat hooks on 1.2 m length. Fits well.
Regarding budget: maybe. We’ll see when we have final drawings from the planner and can finally get all offers. The openness currently affects nothing structurally on the price, the planner said. Span of 4.15 m is completely uncritical and no more expensive than smaller, opening in the bearing wall up to 3.5-4 m is also uncritical. We have 1.8 m in the corridor and 1.35 m in the study. He even said yesterday that the new, smaller floor plan is structurally cheaper than the one I posted first. The ceiling will definitely be a filigree ceiling , no on-site pouring (although that will still be done thinly over the precast concrete parts, as far as I know).
Many who plan a house always consider only their small children they currently have. You put them to bed in the evening and then have a relaxed TV evening. Visitors for the children only come during daytime and so nobody disturbs in the evening. But that changes and then several times in the evening people go to the kitchen, open the fridge, make popcorn, quickly put a frozen pizza in the oven at 10 p.m., make tea, get water from the utility room, look for pens in the study, etc. Meanwhile someone rings the doorbell and visitors come for the teens, food is fetched again, and late at night friends leave. It’s definitely quite different than with small children or even just as a couple.
One should at least have thought about that beforehand because a thrilling movie night or relaxing on the sofa won’t work when people constantly walk past the sofa and surely not everyone wants to lie on the couch in “sloppy clothes” while friends of the older children pass by.
As others have already noted: I don’t think it’s wrong to be able to participate a bit in the life of my children and see their friends sometimes, too. And before cries of outrage come: that doesn’t mean I don’t respect their privacy or immediately start chatting or so. I am definitely a rather reserved type. If the children have absolutely no desire to see us, they can always and anytime hide away. In their room! Yes, for eating and getting drinks, they must come downstairs to the communal room kitchen and yes, we see each other then. That’s just how it is. Somehow one is still connected. And at our place friends automatically took part in family dinner too, what’s wrong with that? It really isn’t like you have to desperately avoid each other and yes: puberty is ultimately only a phase, the last and worst of the developmental spurts, and we as parents will surely not build a house that is too closed and unpleasant because of some mood swings in that phase! And regarding “urges” noises: for young adults I think even two closed doors and reinforced concrete won’t help . Joking aside, it will happen, so what. Also because of some groaning, I would not live in a house that I don’t like the next 30-40 years.
That’s supposed to be the little sewing room, right?
But since I wrote that: wouldn’t a bungalow be more feasible ? Then you wouldn’t need scaffolding, could do more yourselves, and have attic space which could be later converted into a living area.
Right! Also with wall and door. But an extra 5 sqm (not much bigger anyway) sewing “room,” preferably even without a window, is not an option for me. For cutting fabric I sometimes need to spread out 2 by 1.5 m, which I then have to do somewhere else. It fits thematically better in the dressing room because fabrics, clothing, patterns… it all belongs together.
Bungalow: definitely not. First of all, a two-story is actually the most economical building form regarding wall/area/ceiling ratio (at least according to my smart book). A bungalow costs for the many walls and traffic areas needed to access the rooms and thus space and money. Secondly, we have to found on piles. The bigger the base area, the more (damn expensive) piles have to be set.
Regarding draft #122:
Basically, I would make the hallway a few centimeters narrower and shift the stairs accordingly to the left on the plan. However, it’s not so easy statically that the stair hangs on one side there and simply a wall is put above it (upstairs). Then a somewhat more expensive beam has to do its work. You won’t necessarily have quiet at the workplace — I don’t mean noise here, which is the topic, but the disturbance of people walking up and down there.
As already said, I would put a wall there and partially continue it or take over the alignment so that the sofa has a wall at its back and this area could be separated sometimes. Then a couple can lounge there in the evening while others go to the disco or come home later.
I would move the utility room door to the hallway area and yes, separate it from the living area with a glass door.
Regarding heating, I already said it will not stand on the wall.
I find the kitchen okay like this, maybe another window?!
Window in the living room corner I would make floor to ceiling, but I’d probably be the only one here .
What about the fridge upstairs? Watch out for the cabinet in the sewing/dressing room. It would be only about 160 (cm) with fridge of 160... (watch raw construction dimensions, then screed adds about 16 cm height. Maybe better put the sewing place under the window in this room.
The bathroom has potential!
I see the yoga mat rather in the bedroom or dressing room... plan the seating area there, one can also retrofit a closet if it gets too tight with the decorative stuff
Thank you for these concrete suggestions, I can work with these much better than with the endless discussion about storage and openness generally!!! I didn’t quite understand the statics around the stairs... our planner said there are no problems, nothing unusually expensive. There definitely won’t be a wall behind the couch, my boyfriend explicitly doesn’t want that, even the half-high stair behind the sofa was too much for him because then he couldn’t install his surround sound system there. And I find glass doors generally rather... ugh. But basically you are right: I would rather rely on retrofitting. If it bothers us after years in daily life, we can put drywall towards the kitchen (with sliding door or so) or also in the gallery as storage or even between stairs and study. All can be done. We also save money now by having fewer walls.
Window in the living room corner will be a seating window with 40 cm sill height.
Upstairs: we don’t have a knee wall but two full floors 2.60 m high... completely crazy, because it’s cheaper!! I would actually have liked slanted ceilings... so no problem with the wardrobe here.
The garden faces only southwest — not south. Most of the sun comes from the left side of the plan where the utility room is currently.
Right. I’ve read that it’s always energetically most favorable to put large windows facing south and west. We are more night owls and want to enjoy the evening sun mainly. Morning sun is at most important for breakfast (to get going somehow), hence the only east window in the kitchen. That’s our line of thought.
Phew, I wrote a novel. But I just can’t help responding and arguing … I would really appreciate it if there were less general discussion about storage and openness, as daily life looks very different in many families apparently, and more about concrete suggestions and corners in the floor plan.
I honestly say for example that the gallery could be smaller. I find it practical if it is 2 m wide because then the yoga mat and also a guest mattress fit in. But sure, I wouldn’t mind if at the expense of the gallery the children’s rooms got bigger, only I can’t do that with this floor plan because otherwise the accesses to the rooms wouldn’t work any more and they’d be too unevenly sized. If someone has a brilliant idea for a rather central staircase, bring it on!