On which of these floor plans can we continue to build?

Hello everyone,

after having already spent a longer time in another forum, I hope to be able to start anew here (also with those who might be active in both forums).

We have found a plot with a house through a developer. We really like the location (in the deep west of the beautiful Ruhr area).

The plot with a standard floor plan (10x9 m, approx. 150 m²) and a 9 m garage is within budget. It should not get any bigger.

At the time, there was an appointment with the developer and the architect, during which we talked about our wishes and special pieces of furniture to be taken along.

We also talked about the 9 m garage. As planned, it is positioned on the west side of this house so that one can basically drive straight in. However, we came to the realization that it would actually be better placed on the east side. That way, one could position an additional light source on the west side in the kitchen or living room area. On the other hand, this would probably only be a passive light source due to the neighboring house on the west. Wouldn't a window on the east side be just as effective as on the west side? On the west side, house 9 is 6 m away, or 3 m away its garage. On the east side, the window would be approximately at the level of the terrace of house 11.

Since the driveway to the garage on the east side also seemed quite tight to us, we simulated it with our Fabia station wagon (4.25 m long) at a corner of the house and with the plot boundary marked in chalk. The driveway and exit work, even if the neighbor were to install a fence on the boundary. But we are not yet 100% convinced of this option.

Originally, we planned to build smaller (10x8 m) instead of the offered standard floor plan (10x9 m). The architect also drew something for this, but we did not like it at all.

Then we moved to a size of 10x8.5 m, and the architect oriented himself on the standard floor plan (only instead of 14 steps, 15 steps). The straight or quarter-turn staircase always created new issues with various redrawings. Mostly, the dining area was too narrow and/or the hallway or foyer was much too large.

In between, we briefly drew another floor plan ourselves (rotating the quarter-turn staircase by 90°) and had it redrawn, but discarded it again due to the seemingly too small TV area (4.15 m depth). I have to mention that in our apartments we always had a distance of 4.5-6 m for a 42-inch TV and found this comfortable.

We were close to despair and visited show homes. In the model houses, we picked up some great ideas (including a built-in wardrobe in the foyer, 14-15 m² large children's rooms are sufficient) and saw and tried out some living rooms with a TV area of about 3.5-3.75 m. We did not find these small anymore, especially with the background knowledge of the recommendations given by TV manufacturers for the optimal distance.

Hoping to solve all problems with a larger floor plan, we then decided to go for a size of 10x9 m and saw the Signus floor plan (with 14 steps) from [URL_INTERNA=https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/kern-haus-erfahrungen-ravensburg.24117/

Kern-Haus[/URL_INTERNA] and had it redrawn accordingly (with 15 steps). In retrospect, the basic structure is similar to the developer's standard floor plan, except that the staircase and the TV area were solved slightly differently. The dining area is just as narrow, and an additional hardly usable room arises between the foyer and dining area.

Meanwhile, the architect had drawn the standard floor plan with a corner staircase. We asked him to draw it again with dimensions. Unfortunately, we are still waiting for this version. Instead, we have now received the Signus floor plan with a slightly different quarter-turn staircase (one step from the straight stair was shifted into the exit).

Here are first the key data:

Development plan/restrictions


[*]Our plot and house shall be number 10.
[*]Plot size: 370-380 m² (16 m wide, approx. 23.8 m deep), no slope
[*]Building window: 10 m wide and 13.5 m deep, each with 3 m boundary distance to neighbors and to the private path (this will be extended to the boundary of number 11)
[*]Orientation: south to south-east
[*]Floor area ratio: 0.4
[*]Plot ratio: 0.8
[*]2 full stories
[*]6° flat roof shape
[*]Bauhaus style
[*]Parking spaces: In the development area, the private demand for garages, carports and parking spaces must be met on the plot itself with regard to the limited capacity of the access areas. Garages, carports and parking spaces shall not be distributed arbitrarily and disorderly on the plots. Accordingly, they are only permitted within the buildable plot areas and in the areas designated for garages, carports and parking spaces. This prevents the impression of disorderly development and, in particular, prevents the use of rear areas and the boundary distances to the existing buildings by garages, carports and parking spaces.


Requirements of the builders


[*]Detached
[*]No basement
[*]2 full stories
[*]2 adults (35, 40), 2 children (6)
[*]Kitchen, living/dining room, WC, bathroom, utility room/HAR, master bedroom, 2 children’s rooms, 1 study (exclusively for home office), additional storage room
[LIST]
[*]It would be nice if one could look from the main work area or sink in the kitchen into the garden.
[*]It would be nice if one could look from the couch in the living room into the garden.
[*]The area between living room and foyer/stairs should be closed off with a door as much as possible.
[*]In the master bedroom, the door should be visible from the bed; there should be no window behind or above the bed.
[*]Children’s rooms approx. 15 m² each and both facing south (nicer view, more light) with matching windows.
[*]The study should be at least 8 m². This room does not necessarily have to be accessible from the hallway, it can also be an adjacent room. The desk should be placed sideways to the window. In addition, the desk should be positioned so that it cannot be directly seen from the street (background: I find it unpleasant to sit with my back to the "audience"). The room should be arranged so that a 1.5 m wide wardrobe (storage) and one or more 1 m wide highboards (ideally 3) can fit.
[*]A window in the upstairs hallway would be nice.

[*]So far no overnight guests
[*]Rather closed architecture
[*]Rather modern design
[*]Preferably closed kitchen, (semi)-open kitchen also conceivable
[*]5-6 dining seats
[*]No fireplace
[*]TV wall with 5.1 system
[*]2 parking spaces (1x 9 m garage), garage on east side?
[*]Utility garden
[*]No direct access from garage to utility room

If you have to do without something, which details/extensions

[*]We can and want to do without a shower in the guest WC.
[*]The 9 m garage on the east side would certainly be the best place in terms of light, but placing it on the west side would also be conceivable. A 6 m garage and putting the extension (for garden furniture, lawnmower, bicycles, etc.) somewhere else would also be possible. But since it also makes sense to have a parking space in front of the garage, a 6 m garage with a 5.0-6 m parking space would practically end at the back of the house. So one would not really gain anything.

Developer’s floor plan (pictures end with 295772-295772-5.png)
House design, why is the design the way it is now?

[*]Architect of the developer, the floor plan is based on the Signus from Kern-Haus.
[*]We like the basic structure so far.

[*]We find the house entrance side with the front door and the windows above much more inviting compared to the standard floor plan.
[*]Is the front door drawn too big?
[*]The door to the living room is not optimal. Depending on the kitchen design, it would be open in the way.
[*]Wouldn't a parapet of 1.01 m be sufficient for the kitchen window? The left window in the dining area facing the terrace might rather be floor-to-ceiling. Might not look completely symmetrical from the outside, but it would be the same inside in the dining area.
[*]The quarter-turn staircase with one step in the exit took away needed space from the foyer to the TV area. Is the TV area still big enough?
[*]The quarter-turn staircase with one step in the exit also makes the foyer quite large. How could this space, especially under the stairs, be better used? Also with a built-in wardrobe or a storage room (accessible from there)? We also once thought about turning the stairs 180° and using the area under the stairs in the entrance as a cloakroom (built-in wardrobe). But what would be done with the door to the living room then? And how would it look when entering the house and seeing a wardrobe directly? On the other hand, it might also make sense to swap the front door with the window element.
[*]The utility room has a 73.5 cm wide door. Is this sufficient or would an 85 cm door be more advantageous?
[*]For the WC, we would perhaps rather have the door open inward and then swap toilet and washbasin.
[*]The two bed niches in the children’s rooms do not seem optimal at first glance. On the one hand, only a wider bed fits here and the other child would have to put a bigger bed elsewhere later (if they don’t want to sleep half under the window), on the other hand, one can't see from this niche who is entering the room. Perhaps this deep niche is better suited for access and possibly a wardrobe placed head-on. Or the partition wall is shifted a bit more to the left (centered between the two windows), so that a bed fits in the niche in both children’s rooms and a larger bed would then protrude slightly.
[*]The storage room could possibly be a bit narrower in favor of the bathroom. Maybe it would look nicer if an 85 cm door was also used here?
[*]The heating technology will probably be underfloor heating with a gas condensing boiler with solar storage to support hot water.

Own floor plan 1 [U](pictures end with 295772-6-295772-7.png)
House design, why is the design the way it is now?[/U]

[*]Do-it-yourself ... Since the basic structure of the developer and Signus doesn’t let go of us, I also drew a little. The access to the utility room was moved into the kitchen, and a 1.25 m wide built-in wardrobe was planned in the foyer.
[*]Maybe the stairs should be moved a bit more to the left to get the living/dining area a bit bigger. For this, the WC could be made narrower and maybe a bit longer.
[*]The square living/dining room seems like it might not be used optimally later. The area between TV and couch is also not really close at 5.87 m.
[*]Upstairs the hallway might still be a bit too wide (due to the storage room). Here, the wall between storage room and left children’s room could be moved a bit more to the left. This would mean for the door to the children’s room that it is not flush with the stair railing but disappears a bit behind the wall at the end of the stairs. Or could this be solved by installing a railing to the left children’s room at the last step (somewhat like in the developer’s floor plan)? On the other hand, such a wide hallway would allow placing 30-40 cm narrow sideboards.
[*]The layout of WC and bathroom might possibly be solved differently.
[*]Windows and doors are not fixed yet and could certainly be placed better.
[*]We like the entrance area better with the two outer windows above.

Own floor plan 2 [U](pictures end with 295772-8-295772-9.png)
House design, why is the design the way it is now?[/U]

[*]Do-it-yourself ... We looked at all floor plans again and stumbled across the plan with the staircase rotated 90°. I extended this plan to 9 m depth and moved the staircase.
[*]I find this floor plan very flexible, as the center axis can be shifted as needed. The same applies vertically to the utility room and study.
[*]Regarding the position of the stairs, I like that you come out behind the center axis upstairs and can get large straight rooms to the south as well as on the other side.
[*]I also thought about whether to use a different staircase, but somehow didn’t find an optimal location or that would mean there is probably no window upstairs in the hallway.
[*]The kitchen could perhaps also be designed open. On the other hand, it would be the closed kitchen we want. Dimension-wise it should not seem corridor-like.
[*]The foyer might still be a bit too large, especially the area in front of the WC. On the other hand, a narrow sideboard, a mirror or daily coat rack might fit there.
[*]The children’s rooms might be a bit too big. The center axis including stairs could be moved about 20 cm towards the garden, but then the living/dining and cooking area would also become narrower.
[*]The master bedroom might be a bit too narrow if you put the bed on the right and a sideboard with TV on the opposite side?
[*]Whether the stair overhang is sufficient to get from this area into the bathroom would have to be looked at in detail.
[*]The layout of WC and bathroom might possibly be solved differently.
[*]Windows and doors are not fixed yet and could certainly be placed better.
[*]We like the entrance area better with the two outer windows above. Whether to put two narrow windows next to the entrance door or one larger one and probably none aligned above would have to be looked at in detail.

What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan summarized in 130 characters?
There will be a few more characters.

[*]Is a floor plan already so good that one can build on it further?
[*]Where would you position the garage?
[*]How would you position the TV area? The TV wall (with about 1.8-2 m larger wall surface) on the south side and the view from the couch into the garden, or the TV wall inside?
[*]Both children’s rooms facing south (view of greenery) or rather to the west side (view of the neighboring house)?

So, that was a lot of text.

I hope I haven’t forgotten anything and wish us a pleasant discussion.

P.S.
We also received the suggestion to build the house rather 7-8 m wide instead of 10 m and deeper. That way the garage could be on the west side and one could position an additional light source on the west side in the kitchen or living room area.
Somehow we haven’t found a suitable floor plan idea yet that makes us rethink. And the thought of having a very long green strip on the east side doesn’t make it easier for us mentally.

Location plan:

after I already had a longer round in another forum, I hope to be able to start anew here (also with those who might be active in both forums).

At least you have nicely condensed the 260 posts from there here

But be careful: the tolerance for resistance to advice is lower here

11ant, thanks for the hint, it sounded familiar to me right away.

11ant, thanks for the hint, it just sounded so familiar to me.

There is no need for my hint, the OP uses the same name in both forums. What’s your name there, or do you just read silently?

Have you drawn in all existing or desired furniture to scale in all floor plans?

Personally, I like the first one of the ground floor best. The utility room door can be moved a bit closer to the kitchen. There is no need for direct access to the kitchen. Better to put in a proper pantry.

None of the upper floors really excites me.

Somehow the whole thing seems a bit confusing to me. Take a floor plan, pencil, and MM paper. Draw in furniture, move a door.
You write in detail what goes into the study. Draw it in.

The thread is way too long. I fail to reach the back third for the second time on this day. It's pointless just reading the requirements. Unfortunately, you no longer feel like saying a word. Basically, the decision is already made. Even parking has been practiced, and the sideboards are already mentally in place. Good luck!

P.S. A window is not a light source. The sun is a light source. In this case, windows are sufficient.

I now have some quotes

position an additional light source. On the other hand, due to the neighboring house in the west, this would likely be a passive light source

Lamp???

Would a window on the east side be just as effective as on the west side?

No, because in the afternoon/evening you are at home.

And the idea of having a very long green strip on the east side does not make it mentally easier for us.

Do you prefer the strip on the west side instead of the east? With a 10 meter wide house, you would have two! strips minus garage, but with window loss. It’s six of one and half a dozen of the other: either a strip, meaning 3 meters of usable space (which isn’t so bad), or no windows.