Building with a small budget feasible?

  • Erstellt am 2020-12-29 21:11:34

Zaba12

2021-04-10 10:50:41
  • #1

But unfortunately here, after 10 years or earlier, in a WP it means a broken heating system
 

pagoni2020

2021-04-10 13:38:48
  • #2

I know that our floor heating system here currently is certainly far from optimal installation and configuration; but everything was carried out by a certified heating specialist company!
The floor in the bathroom is currently warm, which I find cozy in winter, but somehow it mostly feels rather random; in the second bathroom it is often different. Then it suddenly gets cold, which is less pleasant on tiles. When the sun comes out soon, I can only stand it during the day if I throw all the windows wide open and thus waste heat that was expensively generated.

As a resident of a new building, I simply want things to work and for ME to feel comfortable; temperatures are, of course, perceived very differently in everyday life. For example, if all rooms always have approximately the same temperature, that is the opposite of comfort for me, and when I am still at the mercy of the system-induced inertia, that is almost a knockout criterion for such a heating system.
However, I understand that 90% or more of people find supply temperatures exactly as absolutely fitting, but for me it remains a matter of pros and cons. Therefore, I would describe a floor heating system as a "standard" (because it is currently installed predominantly) but by no means as a "must-have," without which comfortable living would not be possible.
After having read the countless and lengthy technical dramas here in the forum, it quickly became clear to me that I want it differently. If we had a gas connection in the street, that would have been exactly it and probably without floor heating. The heat pumps currently installed as the "standard" fill even more problem threads in the forums and other online discussions because apparently, or unfortunately, the experience of specialist companies has not kept pace with the speed of technical development or the execution is often just done half-heartedly. If I then also build with a general contractor, someone installs whatever and I can only watch and hope......only to read here later that the system was foolishly installed or set up after all.
made an effort with his house overall, and when I read his thread about it, I understand how a builder gets annoyed if he is left more or less helpless.
What writes above is certainly technically correct, but honestly, I personally have no desire whatsoever to deal with something like that. I buy a car and just want to drive it without having to complete a mechanic apprenticeship first; what do I care about terms like hysteresis or doodads when I simply want it pleasantly warm. Just imagine having to engage for a long and exhausting time with every craft after moving in!
Sure, that was different for me "back in the day," but by now I can understand the neighbor of if he won’t feel like dealing with it at all over the next five years.
I do not have a perfect solution again but want to note that the currently installed "standard" does not satisfy everyone because luckily we all think differently.
Nowadays, time is almost fiercely saved by fast-running motors in venetian blinds, KNX automation, light without needing to turn it on; every second of life is time-optimized so that I then sit for hours, mostly frustrated and unsuccessfully, in front of my heat pump or incorrectly dimensioned floor heating. So savings happen at all costs.
 

Zaba12

2021-04-10 13:55:32
  • #3
Your professional company has absolutely no interest and no time to optimize your heating system for you. By optimize I also mean, among other things, reducing compressor starts and not just an efficient consumption of the heat pump. After the first (1) winter with the standard setting and the ERRs, I had almost 10k compressor starts. At 100k starts, the compressor of the heat pump usually fails. This winter, after my optimization, I had 560 starts. By the way, my neighbor’s heat pump is now dead after 5 years because he did nothing. ...so go ahead and believe in your standard setting.
 

kati1337

2021-04-10 14:16:30
  • #4

I consider the inertia a plus, as crazy as that sounds. I can't stand it when the temperature in a room changes too quickly.
In the old house, we had much more ping-pong with the temperature in winter. Heater up - now it's too warm - window open - heater down again - too cold - heater up again. That's pure energy waste. Maybe I was just too stupid to find the right setting, but we were always fiddling with the radiators, I don't miss that at all.

Otherwise, you hardly notice anything from the underfloor heating. Our flow temperature is usually below 30°C. Since that is well below our body temperature, the floors are not even perceived as particularly warm.
 

pagoni2020

2021-04-10 15:18:39
  • #5
That would never be MY specialist company in new construction and other matters! Otherwise, we might talk, but we’re just talking past each other. If I buy a modern, expensive "must-have heating system," personally I don’t even want to know what “compressor, hysteresis, spread” and all that stuff means; in this context, I have read countless terms, the thread I mentioned illustrates this quite well. Sure, you have ERR etc. (new term), different numbers of starts, but that requires massive immersion in this topic and not just reading an instruction manual like with a mixer. I want heating that works reliably and well on its own.

Again, just imagine you really had to think that much about all other trades or about statics, window construction, concrete, wood, plaster… that would be impossible and extremely annoying. The topic of heating/heat pump and also underfloor heating requires a high level of information, and in the end, I am often left with mediocrity. I have also read here here and there that builders were advised against various optimizations because the warranty would then be lost. If you personally enjoy that or at least it doesn’t annoy you, then you are doing everything right for yourself, I didn’t want that. One moment please... I’ll just flip through volume IV of my study materials on heating construction so I can join the conversation... Wonderful... for you... for someone not technically inclined to heating technology, that’s just annoying... That just strengthens my thesis: The specialist company installs junk (as you describe here with the example) and I, as a trained shepherd, now basically have to get technical training so that my expensive heating system is not broken after 5 years... I don’t understand what is supposed to be sensible about that. I am not saying I have a solution, but what you described clearly is not a solution for everyone, see neighbor, and he doesn’t have to be stupid because of that. Those who read carefully beforehand are usually at an advantage! I certainly do not believe in a standard setting; I generally doubt the described “standards” here. I wrote that I have no desire for this eternally ongoing maintenance of a poorly installed/set heating system. THAT is what I wrote, ok? Can you really not imagine that there are people, regardless of age or gender, who have no desire for such technical setting stuff? Does that make them stupid—that’s understandably annoying for the neighbor! I don’t find that crazy at all if that works for you; on the contrary, then you have even done everything right for yourself!
 

Tolentino

2021-04-10 15:38:18
  • #6

Honestly, I have now come to the conviction that you actually should. When I presented my construction project in the shopping center around the corner, where a lot of experts gather, besides the obvious mistake I asked about, dozens of other points were noticed and everything was taken apart. Just at the base slab before pouring, three to four questionable points were found.
This will be the case in every situation, that many craftsmen finish rather quickly and do it in a way that is easy and cheap for them. Only with most trades you don’t see it afterwards because it is hidden behind plaster or drywall.
If you’re lucky, the botchwork won’t cause any long-term damage.
With the heating (air-to-water heat pump) the botchwork just shows up faster, since we still have relatively low temperatures in winter.

I’ve said before, “Blessed are the simple-minded, for theirs is the carefree (not defect-free) construction.” or something like that…

Edit: Typos
 

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