Heat pump is not compatible with a water-bearing fireplace

  • Erstellt am 2023-10-20 18:54:17

kati1337

2023-10-21 09:57:15
  • #1
This thread gets the award for the biggest potential for confusion in the forum. :D Can you summarize again:

- How is the heating currently set? Footpoint? Slope? You can view everything on the heating system in the info menu, ideally without changing anything.
- If this is a new building, was a thermal balancing done by the plumber? (actually must be done)
- Has the plumber ever explained the system and its operation to you? If not, demand that. This is important.
- If you still have a warranty, why don't you ask the plumbing company that installed the unit (or the construction company) instead of others?
- What flow temperature is the heat pump currently running at?
- I assume it is outdoor temperature controlled, meaning it adjusts automatically depending on how cold it is outside? The problem with this setup is always when you have a room with an additional heat source that changes the demand - like a fireplace. Actually, the installing company should have taken that into account.

What I absolutely don't understand is why you TURN OFF the heating in all rooms except the bathroom and the room with the additional heater? I would rather turn up the room thermostats in all rooms except the room with the fireplace. Generally, closed individual room thermostats are poison for the efficiency of the heat pump. To explain it simply, this happens: The heat pump heats the water hotter than necessary (using unnecessary electricity) to then circulate it more slowly through the rooms (because the valves are closed). Makes little sense, right?
 

WilderSueden

2023-10-21 10:00:11
  • #2
And then you wonder about exorbitant electricity and wood consumption?
 

Mycraft

2023-10-21 10:03:09
  • #3

Yes, but it won’t help you at all. It will only increase consumption.


Rotormotor already explained this very well. You are heating the other rooms with the two rooms bathroom + living room. Even if you don’t want to and have turned down the controllers. Thermodynamics sees it differently.

As it looks, once again you have a typical house with a poorly or badly adjusted heating system. Combined with a usage behavior like radiator heating. But with an underfloor heating, which basically works the opposite way.

I bet that a nighttime setback is also programmed.

Your steps now would be:

- Hydraulic balancing
- Thermal balancing

But this usually takes a whole season and you need someone who knows what they’re doing.


No, those are independent systems.
 

RotorMotor

2023-10-21 10:06:22
  • #4
Oh wow, you could still scroll further in the datasheet and there actually is an A16, which you apparently have. With that part, you could wonderfully heat a multi-family house! It probably not only consumes a lot of electricity but also cycles on and off frequently, but that would be the next task after you've got the power consumption somewhat under control. How do you even measure the power consumption? So where does the 65kWh consumption figure come from?

And yes, 28 degrees would also make my wood chip or gas heating expensive. That has nothing to do with heat pumps.

But as I said, first do the basics if you can't find a heating technician: Turn on the heating rod only at below zero temperatures. For both heating and hot water. Set the heating curve reasonably according to the instructions. Set all room thermostats to sensible values, maybe 2 for the bedroom, the rest 3 or 4 depending on the desired temperature. Turn the bathroom thermostat all the way up.

And then adjust the flow rates at the distribution boxes, but maybe do that later.
 

Jessica388

2023-10-21 10:07:02
  • #5

I’m confused by everything as well, so that fits!

So I just saw this data on the heating system
RT setpoint 19 degrees, reduced 17
Heating curve
Slope 0.8
Level O K
Supply temperature 27 degrees

Our heating technician comes about once a week and “tries things out”… connects differently, etc. All without success.
The thermostats are turned off because the rooms have “exceeded” 20 degrees and that’s enough. The doors are always open. Only in the bathroom do I want it warmer, so it’s turned up there.
 

Mycraft

2023-10-21 10:10:43
  • #6

Bold! And every time I struggle with my 0.4 and think that's too much.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Say goodbye to the idea that the heat pump heats individual rooms.

Imagine your entire house with the rooms as one large water circuit.

For each room, you have an access that is adjustable and determines how much water flows through in what time.

The entire circuit is heated to one temperature.

To bring a room to the desired temperature, you have to let a certain amount of water in depending on the room size.

If all rooms are the same size, that’s no problem; you simply let the same amount of water in everywhere.

But rooms are always different sizes, so you have to let in the amount that fits the room everywhere.

You regulate this via the access (manifold of the underfloor heating, where you can adjust the flow rate).

Unfortunately, in some rooms not enough water fits to heat them to the desired temperature (usually the bathrooms because they are small and higher temperatures are desired).

Now you can either create space for more water (smaller pipe spacing or wall heating) or you increase the water temperature.

Increasing the temperature (that’s the known supply temperature) brings the desired warmth to the bathroom but the other rooms also become warmer now.

So you have to reduce the amount of water here until you reach your desired temperature.

This is called the thermal balancing.

However, there is the problem that at low outside temperatures the heat is no longer sufficient.

You could now increase the amount of water entering each room, but then you would have the problem of having to readjust everything precisely again so it fits, and you are also limited by the smaller rooms where no more water fits.

But our heating system knows from the outdoor sensor that the outside temperature is dropping.

So it increases the supply temperature to compensate.

Since before all rooms were adjusted to their correct temperature by the thermal balancing, this works.

That is the heating curve of the heating system, in which it is stored by how much the supply must be changed when the outside temperature changes.

This is a simplified representation, but it depicts the basic function.
 

Similar topics
23.02.2015Air-water heat pump with solar thermal and fireplace? Cost/benefit/meaning34
05.03.2015Sole heat pump flat collector 2 heating circuits13
25.11.2015Offer air-water heat pump including underfloor heating, ok?19
09.03.2018Radiator or underfloor heating: What is recommended under these circumstances?23
20.12.2019Underfloor heating in the children's room? Some rooms planned without underfloor heating? Air-to-water heat pump removed?48
10.08.2020How to tell if underfloor heating is running - ERR still without thermostat cover50
27.08.2020Additional heating support from solar/fireplace12
14.12.2020Underfloor heating heat load calculation - simply explained?26
15.01.2021Is an air-to-water heat pump sensible for renovation as an efficiency house monument (160% Energy Saving Ordinance)?21
20.01.2021Air-to-water heat pump consumption at 30 kWh per day52
17.07.2021Underfloor heating and air-to-water heat pump in new construction: am I going to have problems?28
08.10.2021Air-water heat pump combined with underfloor heating does not work properly65
14.05.2022Old building apartment with gas boiler - underfloor heating now, heat pump later14
25.05.2022Air-to-water heat pump + underfloor heating + controlled residential ventilation with heat recovery - individually room differently temperature controllable?10
19.12.2022TGA planner difficulties, underfloor heating supply temperature + wastewater ventilation124
02.02.2023Individual room control with air-water heat pump and underfloor heating20
16.03.2023Lowering the supply temperature in underfloor heating more complex than expected?70
26.06.2023Heat pump, water storage tank, instantaneous water heater, wfK, underfloor heating, heating and cooling12
21.11.2024Underfloor heating on the upper floor - one room always remains too cold20

Oben