Vestaxx window heating - experiences?

  • Erstellt am 2021-11-13 20:56:37

WilderSueden

2022-09-26 23:01:28
  • #1
Let's assume someone really wants to choose the cheapest possible heating and accepts that they only get 1kWh of heat from 1kWh of electricity. Wouldn't it then be more consistent to buy 5 fan heaters at the hardware store (let's assume there are some available right now ;) ) instead of a window heater?
 

Vestaxx GmbH

2022-09-27 09:37:49
  • #2
Now you have understood it! That is certainly one option - just like, for example, 40 x 100 W light bulbs. It may cost about 40 € together to purchase. Why should a building family spend 10,000 times that amount on a heat pump system?

The aforementioned option is just not comfortable. Our system is measured by TU Berlin in comfort class A - that is, in the best category. Just like the heat pump with underfloor heating.
 

Vestaxx GmbH

2022-09-27 09:39:16
  • #3
... and you only need 2 fan heaters for the specified low-energy house with 150 m² -> heating load of the building -> approx. 4,000 watts.
 

RotorMotor

2022-09-27 11:15:46
  • #4
Summarized again: We agree that a photovoltaic system makes sense, so I can consider and install it completely independently of the heating system. I can also consider the financing of the photovoltaic system entirely on my own and do not need to offset it against the heating system or insulation measures or cars. Therefore, we should now leave that out of the equation and only compare heating systems with each other.


1. I never said that one has to finance one and not the other, but that I can finance both completely separately.
2. Where did I not answer a question of yours?


You mentioned a 30k-WWWP. For the WWWP, I had once estimated €5000, which is probably still too cheap.


For us, it has a U-value of 0.15.


Unfortunately, there are very few numbers and facts on the homepage, so I am taking the opportunity to ask a few questions:
1. What are the U-values?
2. What is the visible light transmittance?
3. How is solar heat admitted into the house?
4. How was the efficiency determined?
 

Vestaxx GmbH

2022-09-27 12:07:46
  • #5
Hello RotorMotor,

now we have found a good basis for discussion and I am happy to answer all your questions (I am addressing you informally because that is common in forums; if you do not want this, please let me know briefly – no problem).

1. If we only compare heating systems with each other, this comparison is very flawed because the heat pump naturally has a COP that is higher than that of IR heating systems. The comparison would end quickly because the heat pump is obviously better. There is consensus on this. I also agree that if money is no object for the building family and they want to supply themselves almost completely independently, a system with a ground source heat pump plus a large photovoltaic system and a large battery is a great system – just very expensive. Hence the full cost calculation (by the way calculated according to VDI 2067. The VDI 2067 guideline series deals with the calculation of the economic efficiency of building-related technical systems. It applies to all types of buildings). We assume the same budget and compare what results for the building family in the end. We present the most economical system for the building family – and that is precisely a direct electric heating system in combination with photovoltaic and battery. This is actually the task of energy consultants, who are paid by the customer to present them with the best, most economical, or at least different systems. But often the heat pump is simply taken and that’s it. I want to give the energy consultants the benefit of the doubt that they often just don’t know better.

2. Financing is usually always credit-based anyway – whether heat pump or direct electric heating with photovoltaic + battery. So both conditions are equal again.

3. A hot water heat pump from LG costs approx. 2,000 € including delivery to the curbside. Plug into the socket, connect two water pipes beforehand – done. Anyone charging more than 5,000 € for this is ripping off the customer – but unfortunately that is currently not uncommon. :mad:

4. U-value
The U-value of your floor is therefore 0.15 W/m²K. The U-value of our heating glass is 0.5 W/m²K.

Let’s calculate the losses for both components: 150 m² x 0.15 W/m²K x 12 K (delta T room temperature against earth – we neglect the higher heat transfer to the earth here) -> 270 W losses to the earth.

And now the glass: 20 m² (approx. 13% of the living area) x 0.5 W/m²K x 16 K (delta T room temperature against outside air – we also neglect the lower heat transfer to air here) -> 160 W losses to outside air.

So actually more energy is lost to the earth than through the glass. Did you expect that?

5. Figures, data, facts
On our homepage, you will find the technical data sheet for the heating glasses with the important glass technical data:
U-value: typically 0.5 W/m²K
Light transmission: mathematically slightly lower – optically not noticeable
g-value: on the same level as normal triple insulating glass
Efficiency: This was measured in a test room at the Hermann-Rietschel-Institut at TU Berlin.
By the way, now with two different measuring methods. The first time it was 92%, and recently, through an external commission within the framework of a study (comparison of heating systems) of ISFH Hameln in cooperation with the Forschungszentrum Jülich with an improved measuring method, an efficiency of 95%.

I hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily so far and look forward to further questions.

At this point, a reminder – if you want to invest the 90 minutes – take a look at the webinar on our homepage.
There are 45 minutes of presentation and 45 minutes of questions from energy consultants.

Best regards
Andreas
 

Christian 65

2022-10-02 18:37:14
  • #6
Actually, the facts are quite clear: 1. an electric direct heater cannot have lower consumption than a heat pump that processes free outside air as a second input variable. And by about a factor of 3. 2. The total installation costs of the window heater can be lower than those of another heat generation system.

You just must not advertise that you might save heating costs. Because that is definitely not possible compared to a heat pump.

Whether you might save on maintenance costs and primary costs then has to be calculated.

And you really don’t have to be afraid of underfloor heating systems.
 

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