Vestaxx window heating - experiences?

I thought that at first too, but it’s just marketing nonsense. You can tell from the passive-aggressive attitude that is occasionally broken by open hostility, which is then attempted to be concealed with consultant jargon vocabulary as soon as he encounters someone who doesn’t share his opinion.
Numerical examples are mostly dismissed (also passively-aggressively – “congratulations on your system! REALLY FROM THE HEART!!1eleven”) and then countered with the eternal photovoltaic-makes-our-system-economical nonsense.
And anyone who denies this or questions it critically, in the sense of “what would the total cost calculation look like if we completely leave PV out,” is brushed off with “finally watch our promotional video,” uh no, I mean “webinar.”
Every discussion is pointless, it’s a coffee trip.

I would at most respond to his posts with emojis here, but it’s lacking the emoji with the rolling eyes.

Well then – roll your eyes nicely – all good.
I’ll leave the rest you wrote uncommented.
Doesn’t make sense because I don’t represent YOUR opinion.

Just this much: You always want to leave out photovoltaics and then compare.
Result: Yes, the heat pump is the more efficient system – I never denied that!

Only with us, for the same money there’s a big photovoltaic system (by the way, we don’t sell it) included.
And it generates energy – you can write whatever you want.
And because there are no additional costs, I am allowed to use the generated energy in my calculations.

If that’s marketing nonsense ... what exactly about it is marketing?

What is wrong with the calculation:

Both heating systems, individually, have: acquisition costs, ongoing maintenance costs, ongoing operating costs, and a lifespan.
One can create and compare a total cost calculation based on this - independently of a photovoltaic system.
The lower purchase price of the window heating is already taken into account within the acquisition costs.

If the system does not pass this comparison, it has not passed it.
I cannot and should not include a photovoltaic system in this calculation, and if I do, I should either include the photovoltaic system for BOTH systems – both the costs and the savings effects. Or for NONE of the systems.

Creating a comparison between heat pump system VS window heating system with photovoltaic is gaslighting, a naïve calculation, marketing nonsense, call it what you want. The comparison is flawed in any case.

Because it is grossly inaccurate from a financial science perspective. You argue with saved costs = lower investment. Whether the difference is invested in photovoltaics or ETFs or simply spent on consumption would have to be evaluated separately from a financial science perspective. Because it is not a system; it would only be one if, so to speak, the inner layer included the heating and the outer one a photoactive cell, which is still transparent to fulfill the main window function. The fact that it is not technologically a system makes it marketing.

Only with us do you get a big photovoltaic system for the same money (by the way, we do not sell it) included.
And it generates energy – you can write whatever you want.
And because there are no additional costs, I am allowed to include the generated energy in my invoices.

Yes, but: the photovoltaic system ALWAYS produces energy. No matter how you heat. Even with an oil heating system, a photovoltaic system pays off. And even if you have to finance it with a loan.

If that’s marketing nonsense... what about it is marketing?

This whole thing is more of a real marketing fiasco....

I think the Managing Director has already long since achieved his goal. Because there is no such thing as bad PR. The main thing is that people talk about the system. - Also marketing

Business Case -> I don’t know what our business case is doing here in this forum.

Regarding 1.: That is presumptuous and more than wrong. I master our software extremely well (I partly developed it myself) and as managing director have access to all experience.

First, we have been talking all along about your profitability calculation Vestaxx vs. heat pump. I am really not willing to read a whole screen page of continuous text but want to see proper tables. Second, we are talking here about spreadsheet software aka Excel, Open Office etc. Nobody here wants to see your software, but only properly prepared profitability calculations of the systems window heating vs. heat pump with the current annual performance factor of 4–5.

Regarding 3.: An investment - operating cost calculation cannot be made clearer than in my calculation (Excel or not).

Yes it can, like I do. See point above.

Your comment on climate change and CO2 generation is great!!! But I have already written several times about this, which OWL ignores. Can you tell me how much the heat pump with the pumps, compressors, valves, housings and especially kilometers of heating coils in the floor has already generated before the first kWh was produced? That is ... I don’t know, but shortly we will have a master thesis on this – because the heat pump manufacturers don’t provide any statement on it.
We are in the kg range for the complete heating technology. I would like to see a closer examination of how you arrive at the 16–20 tons more than accounted for us through the COP.

I already broke that down. Here is the old excerpt:

CO2e for German steel assumed at about 2.5kg, PE floor pipe 17x2 with 2kg CO2e. Production overhead calculated at a flat 25%.



Copper pipes and heat exchangers are actually again considerable CO2 emitters. Add another 100kg. Luckily aluminum is light. The few valves and heating circuit distributors do not weigh much.

Problematic is of course the CO2e of the German grid mix. Before the war there were ambitious goals, which I now strongly doubt seeing that East German lignite power plants have started up again. I simply assume our government will reach the <25% of the 1990 goal only 10 years later, in 2040.

In the respective columns then electricity consumption/a * CO2e/kWh.



When summing up over the observation period it then looks like this:



Of course, one must also look at Scope 3 downstream and not only cradle to gate.

Finally this: I have already talked to Max Viessmann – at his request – about our system in Berlin some years ago. I had the feeling that HE understood me very well. ;) Not long after, Viessmann included infrared heating systems in their program. Why do you think?

Infrared is even the go-to solution here in the forum, for example here in the bathroom for supplementary heating when the heating surface is not large enough. But that is not what this is about here.