Kitchen & Price - Quick assessment wanted!!

I have to stand up for this one or another now:

Counter despite dining table
We also have them right next to each other and it makes sense. The kids have breakfast at the counter while I make school lunches.

Guests drink something there while I cook.

A small snack usually takes place at the counter.

Proper meals, on the other hand, take place at the dining table.

However, we have the counter as an extended work surface and a pure work and chatting counter (approx. 1.70x1.00).

You have tested it for yourselves and then you will be happy with the raised counter, even if it doesn't suit others.

Dishes in the drawer
Since we only had space for one wall cabinet, we also have our dishes in the 1m drawer. I was skeptical too, but it’s great and it really is just a matter of getting used to it.

Since the kids can’t reach the wall cabinet, I also have 3-4 glasses in the drawer so they can reach them better. You can have things in various places.

SbS
I’ve already written about this, whoever loves it wants nothing else.

Planning in general
I would actually do a storage planning, only this way you get a feel whether the layout fits and whether the right drawer heights are in the right places.

I thought about it for a long time and in the end I packed almost exactly as planned and am totally happy.

Possibly you really go to 2-3 studios again.

There you can do two things.

Plan exactly this layout again and compare prices.

On the other hand, have alternatives planned.

Because this way you get a sense of the price and also notice whether this layout is really perfect for you.

Also a planning thread in the named forum would be an option. But there you will get a lot of resistance with counter and SbS, was the same for me, so I didn’t continue the planning there and didn’t present the result either.

But it can be different for you.

Best regards
Birgit

Dishes in wide drawers work great, by the way, but just as a side note.

Never plates anywhere else again.

The SbS is not such a favorite because:

[*]the opening of the fridge part is always with a right hinge and depending on the kitchen layout this is impractical. For example, it would be with Zaba if an SbS is chosen as indicated in the studio plan. However, Zaba12 does not choose an SbS but a French door ... much more practical
[*]the fridge part of an SbS goes all the way down to the floor ... ease of use, the freezer part is sometimes quite narrow, and you should really do the pizza box test once. This is no problem with the French door chosen by Zaba12.
[*]an SbS is always somewhat harder to integrate because it has this over-depth.

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Regarding the many downdraft extractors etc. that are currently so popular. Unfortunately, they interrupt a work surface cooktop and take up quite a bit of space in base cabinets, especially with recirculation.

I myself am a devoted ceiling extractor fan and especially a devoted fan of sink/work/prep islands and wall kitchen lines.
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For Zaba12 quickly:

[*]Extend the wall towards the stairs by about 10 cm to allow for casing in tall cabinets
[*]Tall cabinet wall made from 40 cm cabinets with internal pull-outs for pantry, etc.
[*]French door
[*]60 cm tall cabinet for the oven .. so also elbow room

Sink line in over-depth made from:

[*]60 cm base cabinet in 1-2-3 division (is almost like an 80 cm base cabinet)
[*]60 cm dishwasher
[*]60 cm sink cabinet with containers for yellow sack waste, waste paper as well as a shelf board for typical kitchen cleaning supplies
[*]40 cm base cabinet with waste system for organic/rest waste directly under the countertop
[*]60 cm base cabinet in 1-2-3 division (is almost like an 80 cm base cabinet)

Cooking island from the kitchen side:

[*]30 cm cabinet with internal pull-out especially for spices etc.
[*]90 cm for cooktop - division 2-2-2
[*]60 cm pull-out base cabinet division 1-1-2-2

Cooking island from the backside:

[*]90 cm with pull-outs shortened by 20 cm in depth, space behind for recirculation box etc.
[*]90 cm with pull-outs

I would only install the counter diagonally, if at all, as a standing bar.

Because if you also draw a 2x1 m large dining table with generous seating into the room, it becomes clear that you should place the opening sliding part rather where I marked it in green, since it will be the more direct and straight line from the kitchen. And because of the fireplace, the table will always be positioned as I have placed it now to avoid being too close to the heat.



On the wall section at the transition to the living area, I could imagine a nice glass display cabinet for the non-everyday glasses, for example.

To the left of the kitchen window (what is the actual sill height???) a wall cabinet could also be placed if absolutely necessary. But definitely a well-accessible place for coffee machine/KVA there.

Never get plates anywhere else again.

The SbS is not such a favorite because:

[*]the refrigeration compartment always opens with a right-hand hinge, which is impractical depending on the kitchen layout. For example, this would be the case with Zaba if an SbS is chosen as shown in the studio plan. However, Zaba12 does not choose an SbS but a French door ... much more practical
[*]the refrigeration compartment of an SbS goes all the way down to the floor ... ease of use, the freezer part is sometimes quite narrow, and you should actually do the pizza box test. This is no problem with the French door chosen by Zaba12.
[*]an SbS is always somewhat harder to integrate because it has this extra depth.

------------------------
Regarding the many downdraft fans etc. that are so trendy right now. Unfortunately, they interrupt a workspace at the cooktop and take up quite a bit of space in the base cabinets, especially with recirculation.

I myself am a declared ceiling extractor fan enthusiast and above all a declared fan of sink/work/preparation islands and wall cooking lines.
---------------------------

For Zaba12 quickly:

[*]Extend the wall to the stairs by about 10 cm to allow for boxing in tall cabinets
[*]Tall cabinet wall made of 40 cm cabinets with internal drawers for pantry items, etc.
[*]French door
[*]60 cm tall cabinet for the oven .. allowing elbow room as well

Sink row in extra depth made of:

[*]60 cm base cabinet with 1-2-3 drawer layout (almost like an 80 cm base cabinet)
[*]60 cm dishwasher
[*]60 cm sink cabinet with containers for yellow bag waste, old paper, as well as a shelf for typical kitchen cleaning supplies
[*]40 cm base cabinet with waste system for bio/ residual waste directly under the countertop
[*]60 cm base cabinet with 1-2-3 drawer layout (almost like an 80 cm base cabinet)

Cooking island from kitchen side:

[*]30 cm with internal drawer, especially for spices etc.
[*]90 cm for cooktop - layout 2-2-2
[*]60 cm pull-out base cabinet layout 1-1-2-2

Cooking island from the backside:

[*]90 cm with drawers shortened by 20 cm in depth, leaving space behind for recirculation box etc.
[*]90 cm with drawers

I would only install the counter at an angle, if at all, as a standing bar.

Because, if you also draw in a 2x1 m large dining table with generous seating in the room, it becomes clear that you should rather place the opening sliding part where I have marked it in green, as it will be the more direct and straight flow line from the kitchen. And, because of the fireplace, you will always arrange the table more like I have placed it now, so you don’t get too close to the heat.



On the wall section at the transition to the living area, I could imagine a nice glass display cabinet for non-everyday glasses.

To the left of the kitchen window (what is the actual sill height there???) a wall cabinet could also go if absolutely necessary. But there should definitely be well-accessible space for the coffee machine/coffee maker there.

I think your planning is brilliant!

Never again plates anywhere else.

The SbS is not such a favorite because

[*]the opening of the fridge part is always with a right hinge and that is impractical depending on the kitchen layout. For example, it would be the case at Zaba if a SbS as shown in the studio plan were chosen. However, Zaba12 does not choose a SbS but a French door ... much more practical
[*]the fridge part of a SbS goes all the way down to the floor ... ease of use, the freezer part is sometimes quite narrow, and you should actually do the pizza box test. This is no problem with the French door chosen by Zaba12.
[*]a SbS is always a bit harder to integrate because it has this extra depth.

------------------------
About the many downdraft ventilators etc., which are currently in vogue. Unfortunately, they interrupt a work surface or cooktop, and cost quite a lot of space in base cabinets, especially with recirculation.

I myself am an outspoken fan of ceiling extractor hoods and especially a fan of sink/work/preparation islands and wall cooking lines.
---------------------------

For Zaba12 quickly:

[*]Extend the wall to the stairs by about 10 cm to allow the possibility to box in tall cabinets
[*]Tall cabinet wall made of 40 cm cabinets with internal drawers for storage, etc.
[*]French door
[*]60 cm tall cabinet for oven ... allowing elbow room as well

Sink row in extra depth consisting of:

[*]60 cm base cabinet with drawers in 1-2-3 configuration (almost like an 80 cm base cabinet)
[*]60 cm dishwasher
[*]60 cm sink cabinet with containers for yellow sack waste, paper recycling, and a shelf for typical kitchen cleaning supplies
[*]40 cm base cabinet with waste system for bio/ residual waste directly under the countertop
[*]60 cm base cabinet with drawers in 1-2-3 configuration (almost like an 80 cm base cabinet)

Cooking island from kitchen side

[*]30 cm with internal drawer especially for spices etc.
[*]90 cm for cooktop - drawer configuration 2-2-2
[*]60 cm pull-out base cabinet with drawer configuration 1-1-2-2

Cooking island from rear side

[*]90 cm with drawers shortened by 20 cm in depth, behind it space for recirculation box etc.
[*]90 cm with drawers

I would only place a counter diagonally, if at all, as a standing counter.

Because when you then also mark a 2x1 m large dining table with generous seating in the room, it becomes clear that the opening sliding part should rather be where I have marked it in green, as it will be the more direct and straight line from the kitchen. And, because of the fireplace, you will always position the table as I have placed it now, so you don’t get too close to the heat.



On the wall section in the transition area to the living area, I could imagine a nice glass display cabinet for the non-everyday glasses, for example.

To the left of the kitchen window (what sill height does it actually have???) a wall cabinet could still be placed if really necessary. But definitely a well-accessible space for coffee machine/KVA there.

I want to respond at least because of the individual effort you put in and thank you for the alternative presented.

I am 100% with you on the last paragraph. That was always the plan and it will not be done otherwise.

Maybe we are just predisposed by having counters in the family. My parents have an L-shaped kitchen where a long counter is mounted on the opposite wall. On each side, there are two stools. Every time my wife and I visit with the kids, after a while someone sits or stands at the counter. Coffee is drunk and chatting takes place there. Both children want to be at the counter. In the evening, food is prepared there (due to the island this is of course not possible for my wife in our kitchen). If there is room, dinner is eaten at the counter. Of course not with six people. When the kids are asleep, we stand at the counter again in the evening with a wine, whisky or similar.
It may of course be that it is so cozy because two people sit opposite each other. This is not possible with the island.

You are all right, then the island is lost for working on both sides. That is indeed a quite big minus when many hands want to help. My wife envisions all the children (at moving in ages 8 and 6.5) sitting at the counter and watching.

If number 3 arrives in foreseeable time, standing or sitting at the counter is over anyway.

We will definitely address the drawer configuration. I explained to my wife the 1-1-2-2 configuration. She doesn’t seem opposed to it.
The space under the sink is not suitable for the waste bin position because we have a boiling water tap. The bin is currently planned to the left of the stove in the 3-drawer cabinet.

Regarding storage planning: Currently we have a 40 cm pot cabinet that is too small and above it a 40 cm wall cabinet where bowls and odds and ends are stored. Then comes the oven, stove, and hood. Next to it is a 40 cm 1-2-2 with cutlery, spices and bowls. That is definitely too small. Above is a 40 cm wall cabinet with only plates, which is just enough for the kitchen; in the living room there is another cabinet for plates. Then comes a corner where the Thermomix stands. After the corner are the dishwasher and the sink (waste underneath). Both 60 cm. Above that is a 100 cm wall cabinet for glasses and cups. Next to it a 20-30 cm pull-out cabinet for muesli and Nutella, etc. Next to that the 60 cm combo refrigerator and freezer. On another wall, there is a 150 cm sideboard at countertop height with 2 cabinets and 4 drawers. The coffee machine, toaster and bread box stand there. The sideboard is about 2/3 full of Tupperware. In the drawers are drying cloths, rags and odds and ends. Everything else is stored in 3 wooden shelves in the 3 sqm pantry.

I have to say we really dislike eating at the living room dining table. All meals are eaten in the kitchen at a 70x120 cm table. The dining table in the living room is only used when many guests are there.

What will not happen is that we change the floor plan (extending the stair wall). I will not block a clear view into the room with a corner.

Maybe it would also be sensible to use the unused stair wall but then without extension and walling. I am considering this. But if then only as an L-variant with island. Of course, the island would have to be smaller.

But as already mentioned, the consultant will probably have to give up the symmetrical drawer configuration.

Just a corner like that would really appeal to me now because I would feel more protected in the kitchen behind it ... But that's a matter of taste! More important is that if you set it up the way you want, the ergonomics have to be right, and with the sbs as originally planned, that is not the case. If you want a counter, then take it.

You can always remove a counter later if you don't need it anymore... (there's surely a solution for the holes...)