Air heat pump or use gas and solar?

  • Erstellt am 2012-07-11 19:15:21

Micha&Dany

2012-07-18 14:04:50
  • #1
Hello Euro,
Hello Musketier

Thank you, Musketier, that is exactly what I mean



Yes, it's always a bit tricky with experience and average values...

I have been chopping wood for various "campfires" on and off for over 12 years...
The average you used as a basis for the calculation is 2-3 years.
That results in a deviation from the forecast of 400-600%...

No hard feelings, you are basically right, but it's just not that simple...
No offense meant

Best regards
Micha
 

€uro

2012-07-18 16:51:54
  • #2
In my opinion, very close, after climate adjustment ~ +/- 15%. A higher resolution is hardly possible with reasonable effort.
The calculation is done in advance, the actual condition is evaluated afterwards.
Not just one, but several systems in my region. Among others, my own building, which is virtually "bugged" inside and outside with sensors; the more accurately the input parameters are recorded, the better the final result.

If there was any planning for the botched systems, it would be very helpful for me and the builders. However, most of the time there is absolutely - nothing! No heating load calculation, no measurement protocol of the controlled residential ventilation, no heating surface dimensioning, no pipe hydraulics... etc.
An absolute vacuum, and this is exactly where the problem lies.
Usually not, only in exceptional cases. The rule is the general contractor / general planner project!
Counter-question: Does your provider ask you what room temperatures you want in the living room, hallway, utility room, kitchen, etc.? Probably not; nevertheless, he offers you house A with a heating system xy at price Z. How is that possible?
Higher room temperature => higher demand => higher consumption costs!
For moderately to well-insulated buildings => noticeable influence
For very well-insulated buildings => minor influence
For heat pumps => minor influence
For conventional heat generators => noticeable influence
For mild outdoor climate => minor influence
For cold climate => noticeable influence

Now you can create a matrix for yourself

Simple answer, heat lowered! "Preheating" makes no energetic sense! The ideal heating provides just as much energy as the building currently loses. Most conventional heat generators in existing buildings are miles away from this. They cannot modulate but usually only switch On/Off! Hence also the sometimes considerable losses.
If you don’t know what you want, you must live with the consequences.
Not knowing what you yourself want/expect means guessing with an uncertain and sometimes costly outcome

regards
 

Musketier

2012-07-18 17:34:11
  • #3


I want it WARM.

Whether I pay 10€ or 20€ more or less per month for it doesn't matter to me. At 100€ per month, the situation looks quite different. That's why the question was how far apart the systems are located. Your favorite "money pit" can mean a lot of things.

But I assume that heating the 120m² definitely costs less than our current apartment with 80m², no matter which type of heating I use.
 

Der Da

2012-07-18 17:54:49
  • #4
The €uro also makes me quite jittery
We have a ready-made house.
We have gas, solar and radiators (no underfloor heating)
We have controlled residential ventilation (purely a comfort criterion)
And we have a Swedish stove (purely a campfire criterion)

So far I was really convinced by what our house provider does, and since we got the whole package basically for free, that is without high surcharges (of course they calculated that in beforehand), I haven’t really given it much thought. I also know some heat-loving builders of the provider, and they have moderate heating costs, which I just laugh about in the rented apartment at the moment.
But the more I read here, the more uncertain I become

Just kidding... I firmly believe that reputable house providers already do the math and don’t try to sell you every piece of nonsense. I also know that gas is not the cleverest choice from an ecological point of view, but we want gas for cooking, so that is certainly more practical than anything else. I also know that such a wood stove is too powerful for our house, and we will probably have to open everything up in the winter first (or turn up the controlled residential ventilation) to get the heat back out again. But there is really nothing nicer than looking into the fireplace in the evening and reading a book on the side. And chopping wood is really fun as long as you still can...

But I really believe, and I am convinced of it, that no matter which heating system I had installed, the costs would remain very low in terms of consumption. Only the solar system I am less convinced of, but well, the KFW wants it that way, or rather every other measure would be more expensive.

So now continue.
 

€uro

2012-07-18 17:56:12
  • #5
Today or in 15...20 years? Until then: good service

Regards
 

€uro

2012-07-18 19:09:09
  • #6
One should then be satisfied with that and stand by one's own conviction. My contributions are rather aimed at the undecided who are still searching for a suitable economic overall concept, less so at those who have already made their decision and where nothing can be changed anyway. General uncertainty is neither desired nor intended!

Best regards
 

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