Cost planning - core renovation of farmhouse / country house

The tractor at night during the harvest. You don’t only hear it when passing by. This year, a newcomer started a fight because of it. He moved away again. But I think more because of his bargain property and because he didn’t fit in here.

You live in a newly developed area, everyone still has a lot to tinker with. I think it will get much quieter in a year or two.

That was really good…

I moved into a 60-year-old newly developed area, where someone is always hammering, grinding, drilling, or mowing somewhere. It’s called luxury noise… sometimes it’s actually funny, one starts mowing the lawn, and the others think “damn, I have to do that too” and then you hear the noise all day long.

Noise really is something that makes you sick. My previous premises were in the catchment area of a university, with an ASTA party basement, beer one euro, resulting in rowdy students running down the street from 2:30 to 5-6 a.m. on Wednesday nights. At some point, the street was a Pokémon hotspot (I still don’t understand that nonsense, how you can waste your time like that), where the nerds loitered in front of the house late into the night, smoking, drooling, eating pizza (we’re talking about 20-50 people) and also made quite a lot of noise.

When I set my sights on my current property, I drove by at different times to listen to the noise situation… nothing, totally quiet, I thought. On the third night, I woke up abruptly, the noise was like what you’d imagine a suburb from hell to sound like. Well, an industrial plant several kilometers away does something special at regular intervals (fortunately not too often), something very noisy (around 2 a.m.)… yes, what a joy. Then there’s the retiree who has all day to fool around with his squealing kids in the heated pool, while you’re sitting in the home office and thought you had peace. At some point I had annoying music playing in the garden myself, sounded like about 2 neighbors away, was about to go over until I realized that a few idiots were throwing a techno party by the Rhine (about 500 meters as the crow flies).

What I want to say is: noise unfortunately exists everywhere, we’re just too many people in a small space.

And moving to the countryside for peace? The nicer and quieter it is, the more hordes of convertibles and bikers really crank up the volume there. Nothing is more annoying (unless you’re riding it yourself) than a screeching moped accelerating….

I somewhat understand your contribution to the topic…

On the third night I stood upright in bed, a noise like you could imagine from the outskirts of hell. Well, an industrial plant several kilometers away regularly (fortunately not too often) does something special (around 2 a.m.) something noisy…

…but not this: how can a factory/industrial plant kilometers away make so much NOISE for you that you stand upright in bed behind your walls?¿
Shouldn’t one differentiate here between noise and foreign sounds? Don’t get me wrong: I also believe that NOISE makes you sick, but you also have to think a bit about “I am not the center of the universe.” Because we all make noises for our neighbors, whether it’s the morning engine start, slamming doors, the lawn mower (Mr. Robot can be more annoying than the electric mower), the crying child… what noise do I make for the neighbor?
Perception is very subjective and personal: people can “put up” with quite a bit, it simply isn’t registered. I’m not infallible either. But somewhere there is a boundary between “something is loud, and there are ambient noises” and “someone is inconsiderate, and I’m bothered by my surroundings.”
You simply cannot escape a functioning economy and infrastructure, not in our society. You cannot always or for your entire life flee from something. So you should rather deal with yourself – which doesn’t mean being self-centered.
That applies not only to NOISE, but to other things too, but that goes too far here. We all want many things, but many things only work if you “tinker” with yourself.

An alternative to new construction that currently interests us would be to completely renovate this here. We don't know super much about it yet. It is roughly 205 m² on a large plot in a good location for us, and in a fiber optic area. :eek:

The thing is, however, it’s really old, and so far I have only built new. I think it has flair. Besides, it’s wonderfully large. Partially basement. It is an old house with an extension at the back. The basement/2nd floor show the old house. The other two floors have the extension. Building from 1928, wooden beam ceiling. The house belonged to a carpenter, accordingly many beautiful built-in cupboards and wood elements and also exposed beams that I find wonderful. Dreamy windowsills, thick and made of real wood. Beautiful wooden staircase. But with a complete renovation, you probably can’t preserve much of that. I asked the realtor; he will measure the ceiling height for me on Monday. Asbestos is probably not an issue. The house is too old and at first glance there is nothing on the facade that looks like asbestos.

Our first assessment of what would need to be done:
- New heating (currently practically no heating inside, just electric and wood stoves)
- Radiators or, if possible, underfloor heating
- For underfloor heating, all floors out, new screed (would be a shame because the floors are pretty, but also good because of underfloor heating)
- All wiring new (electricity, water, network)
- New distribution
- New toilet
- Remove bathroom from the ground floor, new bathroom on the 1st floor (is that even possible?)
- Kitchen becomes pantry, dining room becomes kitchen
- Since all wiring must be new, probably also remove interior finishes and replaster (?)
- Completely new roof
- Insulation of building envelope (?)
- All windows new
- Remove debris that comes out of it
- Basement (waterproofing?)

How can I mentally approach an estimate? Did I forget something? In my head, I’m thinking around 200-300k for everything. Is that unrealistic or can you get by with that? Do you bring an architect on board for something like this (you have to check the statics, right?), or a specialist company for renovations? We need an energy consultant anyway. The nice thing about the project is that such things are currently being intensively promoted by KFW, to bring old buildings up to standard.

In my head, there are about 200-300k for everything. Is that unrealistic or can you manage with that?

In EL yes. Outsourced = no. You have 205 sqm (not including the basement) and a max budget of €300k = €1,450 per sqm. For that, you want to completely gut and rebuild up to the shell. That only fits in EL.

You have received cost estimates over about 25 pages in this thread. And no, you will not get 200 sqm renovated to the level you want for 200,000. We have already invested almost 160,000 euros in a 100 sqm house with a lot of our own work. Without frills like ventilation and KNX.