Cost planning - core renovation of farmhouse / country house

Such projects only work if you a) can live with a lower standard b) can provide a lot of real construction work yourself and have good local connections to all trades c) are RICH.

What exactly is meant by lower standard, or where would the compromises have to be? More like a gas boiler and lower insulation standard? Or rather without photovoltaic and air conditioning? (I can’t get that past my husband :D)

This will be an exciting task. As long as you don’t have to consider monument protection, it is also relatively easy to implement. In total, take the new build prices. So just calculate with €2,500/sqm. But depending on the situation, it can be somewhat more expensive, especially if you aim for KfW 55 or a central ventilation system (insulation in the floor without a basement = excavation / central ventilation means that somewhere the ceiling has to be lowered at 220 cm ceiling height or an upper floor is necessary where the pipes can be laid, etc.)

We wouldn’t buy anything with monument protection, I think, that’s way too risky for me. What exactly is the difficulty with the ventilation system? From the offers I have seen so far, the buildings that are offered as old farms / farmhouses usually have an upper floor, so there should be a floor ceiling where the pipes can be laid. However, I don’t know what to expect there. Is that presumably usually pure wood? We have a concrete floor ceiling here.

With a small 100 sqm house it works, with a farmhouse not. Around here I know those always from 150/180 sqm upwards. Renovated (not in the condition you mentioned) you quickly reach selling prices of €600,000–750,000, gutted usually towards a million +X. Location: in the countryside with negligible land prices...

Yes, 150-180 is also a common size here. I had calculated €300k because we have a new build here including the mentioned standards and where the shell also had to be constructed, for around €308k. But that is of course a different project, so I have little idea where the costs occur in the renovation.

Such projects only work if you ... c) are RICH.

That reminds me: I still have to buy bingo tickets. :P

It starts with the fact that most rural properties have low ceiling heights. This can go down to 1.90 m. Common are 2.20 - 2.40 m. In large farms, sometimes even higher in the good parlor and in the threshing floor. The floors are almost always built on earth, depending on the type of foundation, depth, soil structure, and construction technique, the effort to excavate and rebuild floors for a modern floor structure varies. There are not always cellars that can be used for pipe routing and heating; some first have to be dried out with effort, as cellars were even desired to be earth-moist – as storage rooms for food. Ceiling heights cannot be raised arbitrarily, especially in the upper floors this leads to fighting for every centimeter of room height. Walls have structural functions depending on the type of construction, which can only be partially circumvented. If you carry out such conversion measures, then they must necessarily be calculated by a structural engineer for the building permit. And that is elaborate and expensive in old buildings, and usually also means a precise, prior building survey,...

What exactly is the difficulty with the ventilation system?

You need space for the ventilation ducts. And the remaining farmyards often have - as was usual - a room height of maybe 220 cm. This then affects not only the ducts. Where do you put the floor structure on the ground floor? 15 cm insulation + screed (and ducts) + floor covering = excavate the floor. If there is a vaulted cellar underneath, you also get a big problem because you usually cannot insulate the cellar ceiling and so you are left with only about 205 cm of room height from your 220 cm. Or work with suspended ceilings? Not ideal even with normal room heights. With such a renovation, you cannot just assume KfW 55 easily. For example, decentralized ventilation is a proven method there. I am "only" renovating a late 60s property to KfW 55. And that alone is exciting and challenging. It works in terms of insulation, for example, only because I have a cellar whose ceiling I can insulate. I would not have been able to get the required insulation into the ground floor (or would have lost a lot of room height and had to adapt all the room doors with new lintels ==> annoying and expensive).

Yes, 150-180 is also commonly found here as a size, I calculated with 300k because we have a new build here including the mentioned standards and where the shell also had to be built, for around 308k.

Unfortunately, you will not manage that with the desired standard (except with a lot of own work). The important thing is "standard". You do not have a standard object. - Architect/structural engineer usually necessary - old building materials and construction methods - no contemporary room heights and layouts - modern technology has to be squeezed into an old shell - house connections/sewage - moisture - old window formats that often involve curves and therefore become correspondingly expensive - roof usually needs to be completely new That is not standard at all. And if you look at a farmyard in need of renovation, you will see that the outdoor facilities (which are also larger) also soak up money because they are/were suitable for a farmyard.

The question is whether you need a controlled residential ventilation system and air conditioning in a farmyard house. The indoor climate is much more pleasant. My parents-in-law live in a house over 300 years old, and it is always comfortable in the summer. You don’t need a controlled residential ventilation system because it isn’t nearly as airtight as a new building anyway. You can retrofit photovoltaics in terms of sustainability. We also once gutted a house, even removed the screed. We were able to do the tear-out work really well in [EL]. After that, you first have an empty shell that you can redesign like a new build. So you can use your costs (if the square meters are comparable) for electrical work, bathrooms, etc.

With a property like that, you shouldn’t aim for the highest insulation standard and an air-water heat pump, but rather a masonry heater with your own wood (see , he even did that with a new build)...

With a place like that old farmstead, you rather shouldn’t go for the highest insulation standard and an air-to-water heat pump, but rather for a masonry stove with your own wood (see , he even did that with his new build)...

However, a masonry stove is also rather semi-convenient in terms of operation if you are used to heat pumps etc. :D (I say this as a wood heating user.)