aero2016
2022-01-08 21:08:45
- #1
Why? Moisture by itself would not be a problem in such a basement. Rather normal. Rot would be more something to look at.2. Moisture in the basement
Cost planning - core renovation of farmhouse / country house
- Erstellt am 2021-09-03 10:37:58
11ant
2022-01-08 21:19:03
- #2
No, I don’t have a book recommendation for that. And I warn you against reading up from zero in advance on such a broad field as house construction anyway (it’s not worse but different when renovating): then you will collapse under knowledge, 95% of which you won’t need for the specific property (or will have to handle differently than in the more common example case chosen by the author).If the book is more like Apothekenumschau, can you recommend another one? I would really have to start reading up from scratch.
I don’t think the individual cause of water stains will automatically become apparent during insulation (preparation) work.For example, I noticed water stains around the bay window in the photos. Does that matter if I have to insulate the entire building envelope anyway?
Essentially to bring an expert along. The “desire to gut renovate” is very naive and will amuse those readers who have already renovated a little house. No, you wouldn’t wish that on anyone ;-) You will get a house from 1928 (with still comparatively reasonable means and one or two turned blind eyes) rejuvenated to around 1988 or maybe 1993. If that isn’t enough for you to be permanently satisfied, then you have to keep looking – how fortunate that you haven’t already read from zero up to page 8000 of the technical book collection :)If I buy a very old building with the desire to gut renovate it, meaning I want to redo everything anyway – what should I pay special attention to during the inspection?
JoachimG.
2022-01-09 09:23:45
- #3
I can only agree with that. The project is doable with a lot of EL. I had already mentioned somewhere that I partially renovated a building from a similar year (an extension). Important: - Ask a structural engineer who knows about old buildings and not just concrete and steel! Especially if you want to move the bathroom. I had all floors open and saw the beams - where the bathroom is in the house, they clearly reduced the beam spacing back then. Nevertheless, with the installation of underfloor heating and screed in the bathroom, a corner with the shower settled a bit and it became leaky. Background: No one could look into the wall to see how far the beams rest there and how they are joined without tearing everything down. We were aware of the risk at the time. - Abandon any claim to absolutely straight walls and floors - otherwise, your only options are a new building or a complete gutting (including ceilings) and redoing all walls with drywall -> But then you probably don’t want to pay for it anymore. - Specialist planner: architect or whatever -> The important thing is that he can present good references regarding old buildings. I engaged one relatively late and paid a good deal of tuition because I thought: It will be fine! It is also important that the planner comes from the region; ideally, he knows 2-3 other houses built in the same style and time in the area and knows where the roofer saved back then or where the mason hid his skeletons. Here in our town, for example, a railway line was built through the valley in the 1920s/30s. Strangely, railroad tracks can be found in some houses from that period as load-bearing elements. Also in my house... ;) It was just there and probably cheaper than a real beam for a sack of potatoes or a crate of beer. Or stones from self-organized demolition of castle ruins can also be found in many old houses in our town. You notice it when drilling into the walls! Without someone who knows the slag materials of that time and region, the risk of paying tuition is quite high. - Most important tip: Buy an old building because you like the old building and want to preserve the charm. If you want everything new, including straight floors, ventilation, underfloor heating, all new wiring, etc. -> Buy a new building or something from the 1980s that is at new building level. Just laying all new wiring in a building from that time is a huge can of worms because you come across plaster that falls off the wall just by looking at it, ceilings with plaster applied on straw mats, and any chasing causes the hollow ceiling to give off all the dust... - Note from my wife: Old building only if you can live with the dust. Because somehow there is always dust here. :)
kati1337
2022-01-09 10:13:41
- #4
I don't see a complete renovation here. Pipes… heating… roof… you can renovate a lot gently. Plaster doesn't necessarily have to be redone. What is really necessary? Is the roof tight? Should it be expanded? Floor plans are changed… that can be done gently too. It might be more expensive at first glance, but if, for example, the floor can be preserved, you save a lot.
Bathroom on the 1st floor seems unproblematic. Probably room 5? How high is the basement? By the way, wall heating would also be possible if you insulate the facade.
You'd have to see, I assume "everything needs to be new" because I'm first assuming the worst case. I will find out the heights on Monday. I spoke with the realtor, they have everything measured but forgot the heights. :D She will measure that for me on Monday. I haven't thought yet about which room we'd turn into the bathroom. I've only tinkered a bit on the ground floor and moved walls around (regardless of statics, completely unclear if that would even work) - just playing around ;)
Can you just build a bathroom on a higher floor if those are wooden beam ceilings? How load-bearing are they? Such a bathtub full of water and I weigh quite a bit. Probably a silly question, but I guess other people also have bathrooms in older houses.
I've also thought about wall heating. An old school friend of mine recently renovated an old building down there, and they have wall heating and clay plaster throughout the house. It looks very nice. With that, you could also preserve the partially beautiful floors. I think there's partly old parquet flooring which I find quite charming. And also wood paneling on the walls which I could keep—just in different colors—if we don't do underfloor heating.
kati1337
2022-01-09 10:25:41
- #5
I can only agree with that. The project is doable with a lot of effort.
I had already mentioned somewhere that I partially renovated a building from a similar construction year (an extension).
Important:
- Consult a structural engineer who is familiar with old buildings and not just concrete and steel! Especially if you want to relocate the bathroom. I had all floors open and saw the beams – where the bathroom is in the house, they significantly reduced the spacing of the beams back then. Nevertheless, due to the installation of underfloor heating and screed in the bathroom, a corner with the shower settled a bit and became leaky. Background: Nobody could look into the wall to see how far the beams rest there and how they are mortised without tearing everything down. We were aware of the risk at the time.
- Abandon any claim to absolutely straight walls and floors – otherwise, your only options are a new build or a complete gutting (including ceilings) and installing all walls with drywall -> But then you won’t want to pay for that anymore.
- Specialist planner: architect or whatever -> the main thing is he can show good references for old buildings. I got one relatively late back then and paid a lot of tuition fees because I thought: That’ll be fine! It’s also important that the planner comes from the region; ideally, he knows 2-3 other houses built in the same style and time around there and knows where the roofer saved back then or where the mason buried his secrets. Here in our village, for example, a railway line was built through the valley in the 1920s/30s. Strangely, railway tracks can be found as load-bearing elements in some houses from that time. Also in mine... ;) It was just there and probably cheaper for a sack of potatoes or a crate of beer than a proper beam. Or stones from the self-organized demolition of castle ruins can also be found in many old houses here in town. You notice that when drilling into walls! Without someone who knows the curiosities of the time and region, the risk of paying tuition fees is quite high.
- Most important tip: Buy an old building because you like it and want to preserve its charm. If you want everything new, including straight floors, ventilation, underfloor heating, all new lines, etc. -> Buy a new building or something from the 1980s that can be had at new-build level. Even just laying all the new lines in a building from that time makes a huge fuss because you encounter plaster that falls off the wall just by looking at it, ceilings plastered with straw mats, and any chasing causes the hollow floors to release all the dust...
- Note from my wife: Old building only if you can live with the dust. Because somehow there’s always dust here. :)
Thank you very much for your assessment!
The thing with the railway tracks is really cool!
I actually like the charm of old buildings, the question is whether one can find a middle ground for renovation that you can live with well.
Two things:
1. Structural stability still present
2. Moisture in the basement
Everything else doesn’t matter since you’re going to redo everything anyway. So you can assume a shell construction as your basis. So no matter what you find, you’re doing everything new anyway.
I hope structural stability is still present. I will pay special attention to rot and how moist the basement is.
What reassures me is that the house comes from a carpenter/joiner and is currently still occasionally lived in by the new owner. But it’s certainly not suitable for permanent residence.
I only know that it dates overall from 1928. Since it is still livable, I assume that some work has already been done in the meantime. But energetically I don’t think so, because the energy certificate is a total disaster.
Redone lines will of course be the most demanding part. I considered it sensible because the water pipes are relevant to maintaining one’s own health, and who knows what lies in the ground from nearly 100 years ago. And the electrical distribution looks (judging by the sockets) very old and is probably not suitable to permanently bear our electricity consumption, plus we want LAN sockets again.
JoachimG.
2022-01-09 10:50:15
- #6
Replacing the pipes will of course be the most demanding. I thought it made sense because the water pipes are relevant for maintaining your own health, and who knows what’s buried in the ground from almost 100 years ago. And the electrical distribution looks very old (judging by the sockets) and is probably not suitable to handle our electricity consumption permanently, plus we want LAN ports again.
That’s where the fun starts for the first time. With that year of construction, the walls are either filled timber framing or very likely brick walls (Reichsformat). Chasing cables or drilling sockets can either go extremely fast because the bricks are of poor quality and crumble under your fingers, or they are so extremely hard that you even have to pre-drill the centering hole for every socket because otherwise the crown bit will run off somewhere else. In the first case, the preparatory work goes extremely fast, but you hardly get proper hold for your sockets and cables and the plaster does not hold properly anymore. In the second case, you need ages for every socket and every meter of cable... If it’s filled timber framing. Then it’s a gamble whether the wall will give way or not. But I learned that in the best case you chip out the timber framing and simply fill and plaster it again with Ytong. That actually went relatively quickly.