Cultivation Planning / Change

Hi,

somehow I can’t find anything about this right now, but grey marked is the current status, red the planned extension? Your living room and kitchen are downstairs now?

We are still living in the old house as well, for 5 years with some compromises because my father unexpectedly showed up at the door and moved back in – which we had taken over from him 2 years earlier.
In other words, when it comes to compromises etc., hey we live with it ^^

I understand that you don’t want to take away your parents’ apartment and that you actually try all kinds of compromises that are possible. (It was no different here, just finished remodeling and renovating – suddenly everything started over and was rejuggled with plenty of improvisation)
Not nice, but you can live with it.

Even before that, it was not possible here for everyone to sleep on one floor and despite small children back then it worked great. Our older son was initially in the room downstairs – adjacent to the living room – later on it was us with the master bedroom. That always worked fine, baby monitor on and that was it.

I think especially because the existing house is already so big, maybe it’s really an option to reconsider mentally to still accommodate some of your rooms downstairs.
There is always some bitter pill to swallow and before you start a huge extension that still won’t be 100% satisfactory ... I would do it.

For us, the deadline was 2 years ago – what do we do now? Either gut renovation + extension (our house, however, is paid off) or – despite heartache – demolition and new construction that really fits.

How much coffee was drunk during family meetings here — plenty, but a solution was found.
Maybe you can really sit down as a family again and discuss how it might be done differently, especially since you still have a loan open and further debt might also not be pleasant for your parents?

Best regards

Tina

Why is that now? I can't just take the property away from the parents because I need it right now. I find that incredible.

Hello kaho674,

you are misunderstanding this. It’s not about taking away, it’s about realistically weighing the options. The fact that these always end up in some compromises and are heavily limited is a self-inflicted problem.

The fact is that the two parents have space available that the children + grandchildren would actually need more urgently. That is clearly the current situation.

Furthermore, the current situation is that the OP is tied to a house that does not meet the needs of many residents.

To meet these needs, various solutions are on the table. But actually, all solutions are dismissed with reference to the sacred cow “parents on the ground floor” – leaving only the extension solution. For this, you already overwrite your own suggestions with “Not nice, but rare.” Do you notice that?

So an aesthetically questionable compromise solution, which most likely ruins the resale value of the house, is the only solution because the parents must never ever be disturbed? The unsellable box should later be inherited by the children?

No one is supposed to be moved without consultation. But the idea of possibly enabling a floor swap through agreement of all parties involved is obvious. Nofret’s solution from #10 would also be a nice compromise without a floor swap, but: parents on the ground floor, sleeping next door is not possible – rejected. What else can you say?

And please, nobody start a discussion now in a house-building forum about whether having 3 children so close together makes sense or not

Nothing could be further from my mind. I’ve just often read how some parents casually "add up" newborn siblings with fifteen-year-olds, even though the older one has long since started university by the time the younger one hits puberty.

And in my opinion, you can’t come up with such remodeling plans without some tunnel vision – hence the thought that maybe one can’t see the forest for the trees.

From a parent's perspective, children’s room logistics understandably isn’t exactly a top priority.

Hello kaho674,

you are getting this completely wrong.

That's possible. But I see it similarly to the OP. For us, it was also the case that my parents worked like animals - their whole lives. We were able to study and lived at home for a long time at mom's expense.
It would never occur to me, not even in my dreams, and it would be out of the question to take my parents' house away from under their very noses. Never. Absolutely not. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror anymore. I'd rather stay in the 80m².
I am responsible for my own children. If I can't accommodate them, I can't keep involving my parents again. And now I imagine the whole thing from the sister's point of view. An enormous potential for conflict. No chance.

Even though it is still not a discussion that belongs here:

Every person, every family, every group, and also every forum has opinions and different attitudes towards certain topics.

Of course, economic aspects must be considered when you want to do . Whether it is an extension, a conversion, a combination of both, or a new build. Naturally, the banks have to cooperate. And yes, I also started a discussion here in the construction financing forum to find out what others think about my financial situation regarding this topic. I am still interested in that.

Of course, there are aspects for everyone that argue for or against a new build, an extension, a conversion, or combinations thereof.

But every person also has different principles, different backgrounds that they do not want to broadcast publicly, and everyone has their reasons for judging certain aspects the way they do.

I like to break it down a bit:

My parents fulfilled their lifelong dream with the house 30 years ago. With little money but a lot of courage, they bought, converted, renovated, and extended the house — with an enormous amount of their own work. And by enormous, I don’t mean just a little interior work now and then. My father almost single-handedly built the extension with colleagues. Over the years, he created the entire outdoor area with his own work. He had no money for an excavator, so he moved tons of soil with a shovel and wheelbarrow. He cut down 20 trees in the garden, broke them down, and transported them away. He tiled, wallpapered, and painted the entire interior of the house by himself multiple times... He built the garage himself — the conservatory (even though it is not approved ).

And when he retired, the money just barely lasted to live on — without any luxury. I was 28 then and had just finished the studies my parents had made possible for me — otherwise, today I would probably be talking about a doghouse instead of a house.

The apartment upstairs was empty because my parents no longer wanted tenants after the last ones behaved like bullies, and it took 3 years to get rid of them.

So I moved into the apartment upstairs — but I didn’t want to pay rent; instead, I wanted to invest in something of my own — whether that was good or bad, to me, it felt better at the time.

So I bought the apartment from my parents for a bargain price of €30,000 and renovated it for another €50,000. The remaining debts were paid off from the purchase price, and except for one extended vacation, the money flowed almost without detours back into the house, which no longer even belonged to my parents.

Two years later, the heating broke down on the ground floor. My parents hardly had any money to repair it. So it was clear to me that I would help. But instead of repairing the heating, I had a new one installed — including underfloor heating and new flooring in the extension so that my mother would feel more comfortable. I also had a wood stove installed for the transition period, for a cozy feeling and as a thank you.

That, in turn, brought me to the point of saying I would also take the rest of the house into my name, pay insurance, taxes, renovations. A purchase price of €60,000 was set. I paid my sister €20,000 as compensation for her "lost" inheritance.

From the €60,000, a new car for me was also paid for (which my father insisted on!). Except for an extended vacation, the money flowed... well, where else — back into the house.

In the end, my parents handed over their life's work to me for 2 vacations and €16,000 debt repayment.

Maybe some now better understand why I don’t want to tell them: "Hey, could you move upstairs? I need more space" — because I know they don’t want that. They love the garden, spend half the day outside or in the fully opened conservatory in this weather. They already have problems with their hips. They don’t feel comfortable living upstairs. On top of that, at least €30,000 would be due to make an age-appropriate bathroom there... Anyone who has seen the plan (yes, the old building is gray) sees how cramped the bathroom is. No one will ever fit in there with a wheelchair on the toilet, no matter what you do — let alone in the shower. A balcony for my father's only vice — smoking — also costs a lot of money — not allowed on the sides, on the existing extension super complicated. Thank God he is sensible and only smokes outside! Has anyone ever entered a smoker’s apartment where it is only aired once a week?

Financially speaking: €30,000+ for the renovation upstairs. Changes need to be made on the ground floor, including a new bathroom (the old one is 30 years old and does not meet our standards), which will cost at least €50,000. When I start there, underfloor heating will also be installed on the ground floor of the old building, which is another €20,000 because a new boiler and new flooring will also be necessary.

That is at least €100,000 and sad parents. Economically speaking, it may be the 1A solution. Emotionally, no.

You portray this as if the "exchanging" costs nothing. Wrong, it costs money. Maybe less, maybe even less if I give up half of the wishes. But when have I ever said I want to spend less? On the contrary, I would rather spend more if I know it will be exactly how I want it.

I would like a new build with a granny flat. But I think that will not be feasible. Selling is a matter because of my parents’ emotional attachment to the house, but that could be managed.

So a new build is probably off the table (although I am still pursuing it and have obtained quotes and bank appointments).

I see all your points; they sound and are (almost) logical, but they also block more and more possibilities. Just as my "emotional" aspects close options, your "economic" aspects close options.

Compromises are necessary. The extension is one of them. It is not economically optimal because it costs significantly more. It is certainly not super pretty, but if I imagine how the planned extension COULD look later (as it is planned today, the opening post), I actually find it quite nice inside — from the outside it is certainly a monstrosity that already looks like a patchwork at first glance, but it fulfills its purpose and houses two families.

That I might sell the thing one day, may be. That my actions today might negatively affect the economic aspect, I am also aware. But should this aspect really weigh heavier than the emotional bond to my parents and respect for their achievement?

Way too much off-topic.

If anyone still has suggestions, just bring them on, even if they are only food for thought. I still feel at home here in the floor plan forum, and I have posted a floor plan for discussion. Please stick to that.

It would never occur to me in a million years and would never be an option to take my parents' house right out from under their nose.

That shouldn't happen either, in none of the proposals made here!?

I'd rather stay stuck in the 80m².

You can easily do that as a couple with only one child. But with three?

I am responsible for my own children. If I can't accommodate them, I can't keep relying on my parents again.

If you know that you want three children: Would you in that case have your parents transfer the house to you if you receive a living unit that is not sufficient for your future family? Still, you invest 200k in renovations?

What will you do if your personal responsibility for your children and what you absolutely don't want to impose on your parents collide after you have done something like that?

The option to solve everything with the extension is possible, but stupid. Better solutions always affect the parents' ground floor – according to your logic, therefore, the crappy solution is to be preferred.

I plead here for reason and communication. No one should have anything "taken out from under their nose," and a solution should be worked out by mutual agreement in the family council.

The OP does not have the luxury to stay "stuck" in 80sqm so that he can still look himself in the mirror because of the parents. In that case, he couldn't do it because of his wife and children anyway.