chand1986
2017-07-10 12:00:51
- #1
Hello Farilo,
I think it's good that you want to think for yourself about whether a solution really makes sense. However, you lack basic physical knowledge to recognize whether your thinking was correct or not. At least, I conclude this from many questions you have asked throughout the thread.
Fundamentally and upfront: It is correct to inform yourself from multiple sources. But you must be aware of the danger of "confirmation bias." You fall prey to this cognitive error if you weight sources that confirm your subjective feeling more strongly than those that offer you inconvenient information. Therefore, be especially cautious if you find Mr. Fischer's position "comprehensible"—perhaps you would see it the opposite way if you knew more!
A strong counter-argument is, for example, that he interprets his personal experience as the general state: He works against faulty insulation -> he only sees the faulty ones -> he makes this a fundamental problem. In reality, this concerns 0.x% of insulated objects, while professionally correctly executed insulation does what it promises—in the remaining 99.x% of cases. Anyone who adopts a view here just because it confirms a (pre)judgment is precisely not thinking for themselves, so be careful!
You should also reconsider your economic approach as to whether it all makes financial sense. Just as an example: You might (I do not know your property) create usable space through roof insulation where there was previously only very limited usable space (hot in summer, cold in winter). In this case, you have created space that might have cost you more to acquire than the insulation itself. And already one could consider the whole thing as a gain, even if there were no short-term payback through pure heating costs. Depending on how you calculate... here too you have to be clear whether you want to include increases in property value (in pure monetary terms) and increases in utility value (from uninhabitable space to potential living or good storage space) or not.
Now to physics: Properly insulated houses are cooler in summer and warmer in winter than otherwise identical houses without such insulation. Whether the insulation consists of thicker bricks, plastic, natural materials, etc., is irrelevant for the basic principle. The physically relevant questions are:
- How do I keep heat from entering or leaving the house in summer, respectively, and
- How do I keep heat inside or out of the house in winter?
You see, the question to start with is: How does heat get in at all?
The likely paths are 1.) sunlight that directly heats the interior through the windows, 2.) supply of outside air that is warmer than the inside air, 3.) heating, 4.) the outside shell is heated so long that this heat is conducted through the roof and masonry into the interior.
The next step is to consider how heat leaves the house again.
The likely paths are a) supply of outside air that is colder than the inside air, b) active cooling (e.g., air conditioning), c) the inside shell is heated so long until this heat is conducted through the roof and masonry to the outside.
What can you do with this information now? Well, you can first make the basic assumption that a temperature inside the house perceived as pleasant in summer and winter is desirable. Then you can logically derive a few things from the above 1.) to 4.) and a) to c):
- In very warm or very cold periods, ventilation is not a friend of the desired comfort temperature (because of points 2.) and a)).
- Solar heat input through the windows may be desirable in some seasons and undesirable in others. Point 1.) At the same time, one likes it bright...
- Entry and exit of heat through the roof and masonry depend on their thickness, their ability to conduct heat (this is a property with significant differences depending on the material), the temperature difference between inside and outside, and the area of roof or wall parts exposed to direct sunlight.
Because of the last point, it should now actually be clear to you how insulation works. Insulation materials conduct heat very poorly—consequently, heat at cooler outside temperatures passes less through the roof and walls (and closed windows) to the outside, and at warmer outside temperatures less to the inside. Following the above basic assumption of comfort temperature, insulation definitely makes sense. Earlier I already explained that it can also make purely economic sense, depending on the viewpoint.
The controlled residential ventilation, which you called "enterprise technology" (Controlled-Residential-Ventilation), is a logically subsequent approach based on what I have presented here. Ventilation is actually counterproductive in many cases and at many times, but moisture must be removed from the house as it always has been. Solution: Let a machine do the whole thing, which recovers heat when needed.
You don't have to like it and even less do you have to do it, but logically it still makes sense. Moreover, with such a machine, you can keep the terrace door open to entertain guests at the dining table.
I hope I have been able to give you some "food for thought," you seem to still be on the educational path.
Finally, something about the subjectively perceived indoor climate by you. Here too, I see the confirmation bias at work: with a skeptical basic attitude towards insulation, you visited houses, felt uncomfortable, and what was to blame? Logically, the insulation!
Your discomfort, however, can have hundreds of other causes. Too bright, too dark, too much reverberation, too low, too high, wrong colors, not the comfortable materials, an unfamiliar smell (nothing is closer to our emotional center than the sense of smell!), no lake outside the window, unpleasant external noises, etc., etc.
Especially in very old houses with original windows, there is constant air exchange with the outside. This affects, for example, the smell and possibly also creates a sense of moving air. Whoever finds this pleasant must still not forget: in winter, that means heating, heating, heating. And that means not just costs, but also constantly heating dry winter air from outside—inside it is then warm AND very dry. After a few weeks, your eyes and mucous membranes will show you what they think of the comfort climate.
I think it's good that you want to think for yourself about whether a solution really makes sense. However, you lack basic physical knowledge to recognize whether your thinking was correct or not. At least, I conclude this from many questions you have asked throughout the thread.
Fundamentally and upfront: It is correct to inform yourself from multiple sources. But you must be aware of the danger of "confirmation bias." You fall prey to this cognitive error if you weight sources that confirm your subjective feeling more strongly than those that offer you inconvenient information. Therefore, be especially cautious if you find Mr. Fischer's position "comprehensible"—perhaps you would see it the opposite way if you knew more!
A strong counter-argument is, for example, that he interprets his personal experience as the general state: He works against faulty insulation -> he only sees the faulty ones -> he makes this a fundamental problem. In reality, this concerns 0.x% of insulated objects, while professionally correctly executed insulation does what it promises—in the remaining 99.x% of cases. Anyone who adopts a view here just because it confirms a (pre)judgment is precisely not thinking for themselves, so be careful!
You should also reconsider your economic approach as to whether it all makes financial sense. Just as an example: You might (I do not know your property) create usable space through roof insulation where there was previously only very limited usable space (hot in summer, cold in winter). In this case, you have created space that might have cost you more to acquire than the insulation itself. And already one could consider the whole thing as a gain, even if there were no short-term payback through pure heating costs. Depending on how you calculate... here too you have to be clear whether you want to include increases in property value (in pure monetary terms) and increases in utility value (from uninhabitable space to potential living or good storage space) or not.
Now to physics: Properly insulated houses are cooler in summer and warmer in winter than otherwise identical houses without such insulation. Whether the insulation consists of thicker bricks, plastic, natural materials, etc., is irrelevant for the basic principle. The physically relevant questions are:
- How do I keep heat from entering or leaving the house in summer, respectively, and
- How do I keep heat inside or out of the house in winter?
You see, the question to start with is: How does heat get in at all?
The likely paths are 1.) sunlight that directly heats the interior through the windows, 2.) supply of outside air that is warmer than the inside air, 3.) heating, 4.) the outside shell is heated so long that this heat is conducted through the roof and masonry into the interior.
The next step is to consider how heat leaves the house again.
The likely paths are a) supply of outside air that is colder than the inside air, b) active cooling (e.g., air conditioning), c) the inside shell is heated so long until this heat is conducted through the roof and masonry to the outside.
What can you do with this information now? Well, you can first make the basic assumption that a temperature inside the house perceived as pleasant in summer and winter is desirable. Then you can logically derive a few things from the above 1.) to 4.) and a) to c):
- In very warm or very cold periods, ventilation is not a friend of the desired comfort temperature (because of points 2.) and a)).
- Solar heat input through the windows may be desirable in some seasons and undesirable in others. Point 1.) At the same time, one likes it bright...
- Entry and exit of heat through the roof and masonry depend on their thickness, their ability to conduct heat (this is a property with significant differences depending on the material), the temperature difference between inside and outside, and the area of roof or wall parts exposed to direct sunlight.
Because of the last point, it should now actually be clear to you how insulation works. Insulation materials conduct heat very poorly—consequently, heat at cooler outside temperatures passes less through the roof and walls (and closed windows) to the outside, and at warmer outside temperatures less to the inside. Following the above basic assumption of comfort temperature, insulation definitely makes sense. Earlier I already explained that it can also make purely economic sense, depending on the viewpoint.
The controlled residential ventilation, which you called "enterprise technology" (Controlled-Residential-Ventilation), is a logically subsequent approach based on what I have presented here. Ventilation is actually counterproductive in many cases and at many times, but moisture must be removed from the house as it always has been. Solution: Let a machine do the whole thing, which recovers heat when needed.
You don't have to like it and even less do you have to do it, but logically it still makes sense. Moreover, with such a machine, you can keep the terrace door open to entertain guests at the dining table.
I hope I have been able to give you some "food for thought," you seem to still be on the educational path.
Finally, something about the subjectively perceived indoor climate by you. Here too, I see the confirmation bias at work: with a skeptical basic attitude towards insulation, you visited houses, felt uncomfortable, and what was to blame? Logically, the insulation!
Your discomfort, however, can have hundreds of other causes. Too bright, too dark, too much reverberation, too low, too high, wrong colors, not the comfortable materials, an unfamiliar smell (nothing is closer to our emotional center than the sense of smell!), no lake outside the window, unpleasant external noises, etc., etc.
Especially in very old houses with original windows, there is constant air exchange with the outside. This affects, for example, the smell and possibly also creates a sense of moving air. Whoever finds this pleasant must still not forget: in winter, that means heating, heating, heating. And that means not just costs, but also constantly heating dry winter air from outside—inside it is then warm AND very dry. After a few weeks, your eyes and mucous membranes will show you what they think of the comfort climate.