Is that good or bad now XD
JEHOVAH! :cool:
But today is Friday, so get the popcorn out.
What confuses me: is the 18cm insulation enough for your KfW40?
According to the developer, it is enough. I also have a colleague who built KfW 40 plus with them and has the same wall structure.
That’s enough. For KfW 55 we managed with 16cm WLG 032 on sand-lime brick, so for KfW 40 it’s not far off. Since the proposed brick already has insulating properties, that should be plausibly sufficient.
It’s just plastic!
ETICS is styrofoam with all its pros and cons. You can’t hammer a nail into it.
ETICS is not the same as “plastic” and if you say A, you have to say B.
Did you avoid plastic especially INSIDE, hm?
What nails do you want to hammer into the facade?
Nails are out, you screw instead. There are wonderful ETICS anchors for that. At least in “plastic ETICS” I can say they hold everything from lamps to mailboxes without any problems. Heavy things are fastened with wall anchors or prepared with a frame during construction.
I have a sun sail here that stays extended up to wind force 8 and is fastened through the ETICS with two head plates by wall anchors (thermally separated) into the intermediate ceiling. Works.
Although you can also get them monolithic. Personally, I find that concept much more likeable. Being able to hang the mailbox and an outdoor lamp everywhere is a nice bonus.
ETICS with styrofoam is of course the cheapest, but then you have styrofoam on the wall. I find that absolutely not up to date. And the alternatives listed by are somewhat more expensive than styrofoam.
EPS is the insulation material of today and foreseeable near future. If you like statistics, feel free to google.
Don’t get me wrong, I also quite like monolithic, initially wanted to build like that, but for everything beyond the energy saving ordinance, that’s nothing. The bricks are getting thicker, crumblier, or filled (with pros and cons). Price-wise, anything above 36.5cm aerated concrete/poroton is completely uninteresting.
Energy standards are getting stricter, not looser. In my opinion, monolithic construction is therefore not the future.
Styrofoam is trash that in the end can only be burned because it’s no longer usable for anything else. Whether it actually lasts 50 years is another question. Monolithic masonry lasts until demolition.
And the outer shell is completely independent of heating technology ;)
If the ETICS facade needs renewing in 50 years, you tear it down and replace it with the then contemporary and reasonable insulation.
What do you do with the monolithic wall in such a case? Add layers. Have fun in the castle.
That’s the point: total inflexibility for creative people!
I’m still looking for inspiration for facade design based on nails. :)
Until then, your post sounds pretty constructed to me.
Yeah, then... fine, but no quality. It diminishes the quality of the house!
Phew, don’t tell that to neighbors with their 2-3 million € houses that all and exclusively rely on ETICS (with plastic).
Or to all renovation projects where without the unrivaled insulation effect of EPS they would only be sitting in bunkers or would have to tear the house down.
Unfilled Poroton is not just bad outside. Noise inside the house also transmits fabulously to other floors. You have really nasty longitudinal sound, which is why it’s forbidden in multi-story construction among other reasons. Sure, there are people like Zaba who are resistant to that, but from a technical point of view, it’s dumb to use such a brick. Unfortunately, I was talked into it by a developer just like that. And I know so many by now who would never build with that brick again.
Filled brick and peace and quiet.
I find that somewhat odd since the wall is separated by an intermediate ceiling.
Although in monolithic construction, a nice thermal bridge lurks there (intermediate ceiling). I think they put a few cm of XPS between the formwork so it doesn’t pull badly into the intermediate ceiling, right?
That’s an old myth and repeating it doesn’t make it better.... For several years no HBCD has been added, so it’s no longer hazardous waste and can be incinerated normally. Which also happens with the majority of the previously painstakingly separated yellow bags. It’s all burned together with regular waste....
HBCD is only half the truth, because you will also have a hard time separating HBCD-free EPS from the plaster. As far as I know, there is still some work to be done before EPS can basically go in the yellow sack into the same fire.
My recommendation: forget the KFW 40+ nonsense and build the house with a stable, preferably heavy brick. Either sand-lime brick or Poroton hollow brick. Then ETICS in front and that’s it.
I cannot agree with that conclusion. If you’re building with ETICS anyway, 2-4cm thicker insulation separates you from the next better envelope quality. That can be more than worthwhile.
What doesn’t work is super-duper thermal insulation properties with monolithic materials or they are very expensive and lead to the further disadvantages already mentioned here.
The future belongs to ETICS and timber frame construction regarding thermal insulation.
Sound insulation to the outside is specified by Wienerberger with 51db for the 24cm hollow brick and thus excellent.
For example, that is also higher than a T7 42.5cm filled with mineral wool (48,xdb).
Too bad the 24cm hollow brick with 51db is neither useful for building with ETICS (unnecessarily thick, sand-lime brick can do the same with 17.5cm) nor suitable as a monolithic variant (thermal insulation too poor). Therefore, it doesn’t help to present this brick here.
ETICS made of Neopor/plastic only burns when exposed to air. So windows explode, plaster peels off, flames break through, after about 20 minutes the facade burns. If everything is installed correctly.
If it burns that strongly, the question is what’s left of the house, regardless of the material.
If EPS ETICS drips from the wall, you’re either already out of the building for 10 minutes or you have other concerns.
Yes, EPS is not perfect in this respect, but you have to stay realistic about what it means in practice.
Not everywhere without problems. On renovated houses you sometimes see these 5cm large spots. Those are the disc anchors for fastening. If you don’t paint the entire facade every few years, it looks really bad. Nowadays you sink the anchors deeper and then put a cover made of insulation material over it, or even without anchors on new builds, if allowed according to manufacturer specifications.
Renovation I think is a case of its own.
In new builds, you hardly use anchors anymore (with EPS). I haven’t seen it here with dozens of new builds.
Correct, but with mineral wool you have to drill through the wall. Anchors don’t hold in insulation wool at all. Those with two left hands will curse hard when trying to screw anything to the facade.
I originally wanted mineral wool. Apart from the higher price (I think about 10,000€) I was advised against it because of anchors and resulting thermal bridges. Mineral wool can also get wet and thus lose its insulation property. EPS is sandable and therefore leads to smoother plaster surfaces, especially in the usual thin-layer process.
Admittedly, I can’t say what’s true of that. But the price alone is very discouraging (depending on the project, that’s 50% surcharge for ETICS, to put that into perspective).
Ecologically and in terms of energy efficiency, timber frame construction is an alternative even in multi-family house construction.
Yeah, although sometimes you should better not look too closely where the wood actually comes from.