Topic: Facade Insulation

Sorry, that is not correct. It was about insulation of the facade in general; whether renovation or new construction.

That is also not correct. It was about facade insulation with ETICS. At least up to the point where I fell asleep a long time ago. Once a lot of mineral wool as an alternative, other alternatives were probably not mentioned at all.

Putting aside the somewhat lower insulation value and the obvious fraudulent actions as well as the interconnections of the industry with the testing institutes and research laboratories, which actually exist everywhere, one aspect unfortunately stands out very negatively: if I have understood the contribution correctly, it was said that especially in private residential construction the fire protection regulations are more lenient, and therefore private home builders in particular can be affected by the German classification of polystyrene as "flammability difficult". Apart from that, I recommend the contribution "Deutschland im Dämmwahn" (ZDF production) with the aspects "WDVS ist Sondermüll", "Algenbildung und Fungizidbehandlung" and "Widerspruch einer luftdichten Gebäudehülle an sich".

Drum prüfe, wer sich ewig dämmt!

By the way, I did not particularly like the filmic presentation of the contribution either, but it was sensationalist without reason...

then it was said that fire protection regulations are more lenient especially in private residential construction, accordingly private home builders can be affected by the German classification of polystyrene as "hardly inflammable".

Yes, that was mainly what I was concerned about. Whether the post was "broadcast-friendly" (otherwise unfortunately no one pays attention) I don’t care at all ;-) Rhineland greetings from on the road Construction expert

Yes, that was mainly my point. Whether the post was "broadcast-ready" (otherwise unfortunately nobody pays attention) is completely irrelevant to me ;-)

Rhenish greetings from the road
Bauexperte

So show me burning facades (which were correctly processed/plastered) of SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSES.
And the fire insurance rates, for example, classify a masonry single-family house without ETICS and prefabricated houses with ETICS the same.
Are there statistics showing that single-family houses with ETICS burn more often/differently than those without – and that more people are harmed?
In the high-rise fires, the ETICS was not applied correctly, for example, without proper fire barriers.

Also generally: I often smile at some people on their eco-trip against foils in prefabricated houses, ETICS, etc. – because of the "indoor climate." But brand spanking new fleece and functional jackets from Wolfskin & Co. – made of plastic ;-)

Good evening,

So show me burning facades (which were properly processed/plastered) of SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSES.

Ask your fire department, otherwise I can gladly ask my son-in-law (professional firefighter) if he can briefly explain the burning process of styrofoam to you.

Maybe it was misunderstood. I don’t want to disparage the ETICS to anyone; every builder must decide for themselves what they want to use and what not! I don’t like that stuff and would never include it in my offer.

For one, it is hazardous waste. Prof. Bielefeld from the University of Siegen summed it up: "Currently we install about 40 million square meters of external thermal insulation composite systems per year in Germany and sometime later, when the next generation has to renovate these houses, we will have a big national economic problem here because we have to remove the hazardous waste from the facades again. The removal of the insulation is extremely laborious, as shown in a Hamburg new construction project where the insulation panels have to be torn off before the first resident can move in. 10,000 square meters were improperly glued. The removal takes about a year." [Quote from October this year] As a reminder: the expected service life of ETICS is about 20 years; roughly the amortization period. Thus, the question of disposal arises for every single-family house insulated in this way, but on a manageable scale.

What seems even more important to me are the health problems that can arise from styrofoam. In every kilogram there are about seven grams of the flame retardant hexabromocyclododecane (HBCD). It is supposed to prevent a fire from spreading quickly on the facade in case of a fire. It accumulates in nature and organisms and is suspected to impair reproduction. For this reason, the United Nations have decided on a worldwide ban on HBCD. But nobody here in this country cares. AND – what should also not be underestimated – according to the European Union the use of styrofoam in single-family houses is prohibited because it is classified as combustible in the EU. Germany is taking a special path because otherwise hardly any builders could afford insulation for their house. But it does not allow any public building to use anything other than mineral wool for insulation.

If there is a fire (No, I don’t believe houses with ETICS burn more often than solidly built structures), we certainly do not need to discuss the black smoke ;)

Also generally: I often smile about some people on their eco-trip against films in prefabricated houses, ETICS etc. – because of the "indoor climate." But brand new fleece and functional jackets from Wolfskin & co. – made of plastic ;-)

That’s nothing new ;-)

I could also currently amuse myself with the discussion about the ban on plastic bags :rolleyes:

Edit: a typo slipped into this post: it should correctly say: the expected service life of ETICS is about 30 years; roughly the amortization period.

Sorry & Rhineland greetings

...big macroeconomic problem, because we have to get the hazardous waste off the facades again...

Or the next generation will thank us for the energy stored in the house wall, or or... And why should that stuff be removed again at all?

The removal of the thermal insulation is extremely laborious...10,000 square meters had been improperly glued. The removal takes about a year."

A whole 40 sqm per day, I once knew a company that slow too...

As a reminder: a service life of about 20 years is assumed for ETICS; roughly the payback period. Thus, the question of disposal arises for each single-family house insulated in this way on a manageable scale.

Service life of 20 years? That's the first time I hear that, where does that number come from?

... In each kilo there are about seven grams of the flame retardant hexabromocyclododecane (HBCD)...

That stuff is really harmful, even if it is supposedly permanently bound into the insulation boards.

WD