Single-family house (2 floors + residential basement + developed attic) approximately 200 sqm - changes

  • Erstellt am 2019-10-20 21:50:16

haydee

2019-10-21 10:34:54
  • #1
Be sure to go to the finance section.
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/liste-der-anfallenden-Baunebenkosten-bauseits-teurer.9737/

https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/warum-ein-Hausbau-fast-immer-teurer-kommt-als-kalkuliert.16237/

https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/kostenanschlag-ueberschreitung-möglich.32463/

Those two wrote openly here. You can also search for sichtbeton82.
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/baukostenentwicklung-noch-normal.28743/
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/Bauvorhaben-Neubau-Budget-gesprengt-Erfahrungen.28751/

Regarding prefabricated house offers, a lot more is added on.
- by the builder
- costs that are kept quiet, such as gutters ending 30 cm above the ground
- upcharges (electronics from 1965 etc., awful design in the standard etc.)
- incidental building costs

And it may be that you can move into the granny flat in case of immobility, but it is not usable. Just a note.

As a thought – there are still plenty of multi-generation houses with us –
How strongly does a residential unit have to be separated if only family members live in the house? The good old "knock" before entering a room still exists.
Everything works, even if rooms like bathrooms have to be used communally.
Do you really want to rent out the house and only live in the granny flat? It’s better to sell and buy a nice, modern bungalow instead. One that maybe is connected to a retirement home and gradually transitions to assisted living if needed.

I would build now, as big as necessary.
 

kaho674

2019-10-21 11:17:01
  • #2
Just by the way: a "full" knee wall - such a thing does not exist. You probably simply mean a full story. Knee wall refers to (correct me if I'm wrong) the wall height under the roof slope. In many cases, it corresponds to the knee wall plate, which is the wall height between the floor and the support of the roof slope on the exterior wall.

I don't want to repeat everything, but just the price difference between a finished basement and an unfinished basement makes your calculation a naive one. You absolutely need to look at concrete figures and offers for your project.

Regarding the individual points (it would be nice if you quoted correctly, otherwise no one can or wants to follow here): If everything is so practical for you and you think a glass door makes the hallway wider, it's your house. You don't have to sell me your house. It certainly has nothing to do with an original architect's design. Whether a professional once sketched the house by Nicolaus and thought it could work, has nothing to do with a real design including dimensionally accurate walls, stairs, roof slopes, etc.

What you should especially ask yourselves is what you really need NOW?! Which rooms are essential? Delete pipe dreams and crystal ball thinking consistently! Where your children want to live one day is written in the stars. Whether you might sell again in old age is the same. So ditch the finished basement and attic peak. A proper ground floor + upper floor. Basement possibly with small footprint and structural necessities - but not finished.
 

ypg

2019-10-21 22:21:18
  • #3
Honestly, I also don’t understand why someone would build a basement of about 70,000 just to avoid having a utility room on the ground floor. On the living floors, everything is rather compactly built, probably to keep an overview of the living space at all. Every floor needs storage space. Besides, every staircase is just a hassle when doing laundry.

Building a floor to be accessible for people with disabilities also requires a bit more to achieve something more "at grade." Here the problem would be not even being able to open or close a window from a wheelchair. But okay... let’s put aside the buzzwords. Still: do you want to move into a basement in your retirement while other tenants live above you? Definitely not! No one is that sadistic. A centrally located staircase is not suitable for a meaningful separation. And a dream of having several barrier-free steps to the entrance and garden daily is something else. That should always be avoided in new construction.

Regarding the floor plan: having to go through the entire house on the ground floor to put away groceries and having almost only passage rooms upstairs that depend on each other is truly not great. You can only use one room properly as a private room. From the outside, this tower house doesn’t look attractive either, but okay, some people don’t care.

Still, I would advise simply taking 10 sqm more floor space, integrating a utility room, and placing the children’s rooms upstairs. The parents’ floor with a small bathroom can be under the roof. Later, an adult child can also live there in the “mama hotel.” The other rooms will surely be quickly filled with hobbies and visiting grandchildren.



That’s how it is.

By the way: solar is no longer worthwhile now, so there’s no need to upgrade either, since you already have to build according to the energy saving ordinance. If you want a windbreak, then use it as a staircase replacement. Biological insulation materials are not included in the price.
 

Altai

2019-10-22 11:30:17
  • #4
I can only agree, the house is not available for the intended price. 400k€ + all additional construction costs are more realistic.

What hasn’t come up yet, or I missed it... you still have the [Hinterhaus]. Don’t you want to include that in your considerations? Is it supposed to remain empty for now? That’s not good for the house either, it should at least be heated to some extent. Maybe it can be used as a holiday/guest apartment? Or for large family gatherings, so that you don’t have to accommodate a table for 20 people in the main house? Do you need an office?

If you are planning "for later," maybe that a child will live on the property... think about this building – and reduce the size of your "main house" to the now necessary size! Considering the budget, you should think in the direction of 150m².

Or reconsider an "overall concept," that is, how the existing building can be integrated. The square meters of living space are there and have been paid for (modulo possible conversions/renovations).
 

grericht

2019-10-26 15:50:04
  • #5

I specifically looked for it, before I NEVER talk about a "full dwarf wall" but rather that currently a 150cm knee wall in the upper floor is planned and we are considering going to the dwarf wall above the full upper floor. See:



I don’t know why the first post (I assume the comment from kaho674 set the direction there) turned into a financial discussion. If I wanted to clarify finances, I would have gone into the finance section. There are simply many different ways to describe things here. When I talk about costs of 60-70k for the basement, I’m not talking about the price the basement costs if I put it up "naked" but about the difference in house construction with and without basement. A foundation pit has to be dug anyway, a slab poured, waterproofing, .... For us, the foundation depth is very deep anyway and the price difference between basement and no basement becomes even smaller. The living basement costs about 70k extra. And that makes an extra square meter price of about 1.3kEUR for the basement EXTRA. We find that very cheap.
There have now also been countless descriptions of how absurd our price expectations are. Yes, I described at the beginning (because I considered it usual) that the architect said in a first conversation that we could land around 300k for the house plus all additional costs. After that, we changed the stone again and so on. So it was clear that we would not achieve that. I still dropped the number. We are talking about 3 floors of 55sqm = 165sqm (of which 55sqm are in the - somewhat cheaper - basement and 55sqm already have roof slopes). Then there are about 20-30sqm in the attic which are completely with roof slopes. That makes together about 190sqm. That makes about 1.7k per sqm assuming 330k costs, of which about a third is the cheaper basement. All WITHOUT ancillary building costs! We deliberately waived all extras and are approaching an extremely euro/sqm-focused plan. So it’s not that far off, I think.
We are building with a small but old house construction company. A family business with a company pool that has certainly been used reliably for decades. Also the proximity to the Czech border could certainly lower the craftsmen’s hourly rate somewhat. In any case, we now have the offer and it’s not as crazy as everyone here makes it out to be.

Offer follows ....
 

grericht

2019-10-26 16:18:49
  • #6

Where did I quote incorrectly? I’m definitely sorry about that!

There is no development plan for the plot, but it must fit into the settlement area. There are alignments of 6m along both streets. We should at least roughly aim for those. That excludes a larger footprint to the east, west, and north. Only the south would remain and reduce our garden. We don’t want that and are looking for the smallest possible footprint. The climbing of stairs is surely true but is somewhat compensated for by having WCs on every floor and by not having to walk long distances on the floors. In summer, the laundry goes into the garden anyway, which is very accessible via the outside entrance.

Yes, the accessible issue was really a stupid shot across the bow. Of course, more belongs to that. But I still consider a 1.50m staircase to be manageable, and then we are talking about a daylight basement with 2.4m ceiling height and everything on one floor. No idea, but I find that still possible currently for students, a young couple, or an elderly couple if their family lives in the house.

There is a door to the pantry from the windbreak lobby. Whether it will be just a frame or a real door is still unclear.

We see no alternative to the central staircase without enlarging the corridors and thus building square meters that then are not habitable. But we are very open to ideas. Actually, I had hoped for such ideas with this post here instead of everyone saying what we hadn’t considered—although we have included everything in our considerations so far.
Pass-through rooms on the upper floor: Of the many rooms in the house, there are exactly 2 pass-through rooms (in my opinion). It’s the bathroom in the basement where we’re open to suggestions, and the study from the bedroom. The way to the bedroom is still not too long. Probably almost all doors will be open anyway with us—that is currently the usual practice—except for the door to the older child’s room and the parents’ bedroom. I find the idea of having a separate parents’ area with 2 rooms, where the bedroom is not directly accessible from the corridor, practical.

As described above, we can hardly increase the footprint, and above all, that would mean larger corridors. Also, leaving out the basement would save about 70k, while the 10 sqm additional footprint will be spread over 3 floors, costing about 60k and bringing about 25 sqm living space (less than 3*10 due to the roof slopes). That means we would save 10k, have no basement that then can never be built under the house again, build a bigger footprint and have about 30 sqm less living space. (Yes, this might be calculated somewhat roughly, but the trend should be correct.)

The XP9 with 42.5cm does not pay off compared to the XP10. We won’t make that back in 100 years! But that is what we understand by sustainable building. If we can contribute significantly or possibly fully cover the heating energy demand with a 50-degree pitched roof, we are happy. Whether it pays off financially, we do not ask, if we can pay for it. Still, we want to wait a little bit because developments in other countries are currently happening very quickly.

For us, windbreak lobby means not only (actually least of all) that the wind stays outside but especially the dirt. We really belong to those people who take their shoes off when entering a house or apartment. Using this area, where shoes and jackets from outside are, as a thoroughfare all day is out of the question for us.

That’s why we want to completely avoid insulation except in the basement and roof. The extra cost of biological roof insulation compared to mineral wool is actually quite limited.
 

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