Promotion of photovoltaic systems Easter package

  • Erstellt am 2022-02-18 14:57:53

Deliverer

2022-02-20 01:26:59
  • #1
Somehow you have to pass the time until Easter. ;-)
 

guckuck2

2022-02-21 09:03:39
  • #2


Your statements miss my argument a bit. It is not about the "real" money of your employer, but about the remuneration component car for private use, on which you pay taxes at a reduced rate and no social security contributions, as is the case with cash remuneration. But to stick with the employer, who leases, in your example it is a car. He does that with "real" money, correct, but he does it tax-free on sales tax in step 1. It costs him 700€, not 833€. Furthermore, he pays it (hopefully :)) from his income and thereby reduces his profit, i.e., he does it without having paid income taxes beforehand. As a private individual, those ways are basically closed to you, right? You have to pay VAT, and that from taxed employment income. You further state that you pay the 1% and the distance kilometers. True, unfortunately that is heavily discounted because, as you yourself say, the car costs 700€ (actually even 833€ as a private customer) plus fuel and you tax on the basis of the list price a significantly lower equivalent value. Why? That is a tax benefit of the highest order!

The distance kilometers are also just left pocket-right pocket thanks to the commuter allowance.



Perhaps that is the root of the problem. Taxing benefit in kind unlimited with a flat rate is convenient but unfair. And then not even charging social security contributions on it, even though it is a component of remuneration... yes, I don't think that's good.



I hope you recognize the contradiction in these two sentences yourself ;-)

You pay _no_ social security contributions on benefits in kind, which are especially high in the case of cars for private use (and your employer doesn't either).



Yes, a lot of money for a car, but no, not enough.

By the way, the biggest beneficiary of this scheme is not you, but your employer. Let's stick with your example. The employer has an employee to whom he must provide a car because of his activity, e.g., because he has to visit clients. Undoubtedly a business expense, in the example 700€. Now he is clever and says to his employee, hey, you can take the car home and also use it privately. It's really convenient for you because you have no risk and you drive a new vehicle cheaply as a flat rate, which you couldn't do as a private individual, but I as an entrepreneur can. But: since you get a vehicle from me, I don't pay you 5000€ salary per month, but 4700€. That's only fair. At that moment, the entrepreneur actively involves the employee in his vehicle costs. How convenient for him. He not only saves vehicle costs, but also about 20% social security contributions on the 300€ less salary, so a total of 360€ per month. And suddenly, the car doesn't cost 700€ anymore but only half.

For the two of them, that may be a win-win, but for everyone else, not. That this is a good deal lies in the tax advantages (the employer passes on the vehicle at cost to the employee, which he could never realize privately: no VAT, no depreciation/deductibility as a private person, etc.) and in the saved social security contributions.



Certainly. But we have created that over decades with various incentives, whether financial or by building cities for cars. I don't want to demonize cars outright; without a car, we would probably be pretty badly off.



Quite radical. Is that how you successfully manage change?



The diesel privilege was introduced in the mid-nineties to keep the German logistics sector competitive in Europe. At that time, the diesel passenger car was not really relevant; they were sluggish, noisy clunkers. But since the diesel privilege was designed so that in principle everyone benefits at the pump, it was naturally a great (mis)incentive to make diesel relevant again in passenger cars. The key to this was the TDI, i.e., turbocharged diesel engines in passenger cars. Thus, the German taxpayer ultimately made the diesel engine in passenger cars socially acceptable with tax money. And now we cannot get out of this mess because both the industry (wants to sell diesel engines) and consumers (want to drive cheaply) would be the culprits. Politically a tricky issue where you can only lose.

By the way, an appropriate tax basis would be the energy content of one liter of fuel. A diesel engine does not consume less than a gasoline engine because its efficiency is better, but because one liter of diesel fuel contains more energy than regular gasoline. As a seller, I would be interested in pricing my fuel according to this utility. As the Federal Environment Agency, it would be important to me to levy taxes based on emissions.
 

askforafriend

2022-02-21 11:06:58
  • #3


Lie, see calculation above



Wow, do you now want to abolish the sales tax deduction for all companies? Leftist idea :) You probably also did not pay the sales tax on your photovoltaic system, right ;) That doesn't only apply to leasing rates, but that's something general. Wow.



No, of course not, that's why you are a private person. You are free to register a business or become self-employed and exploit the system (which is so profitable according to you) :) By the way, you also have to pay real! money to the leasing bank if you are self-employed AND paying taxes.



Lie, please look at the calculation I made especially for you



Now it's getting wilder. 1355 euros cost for a Skoda is not enough for you? Alright :)



That is pretty much the killer argument of every decent socialist. Just a debate about envy, without beginning or end. But now I know to which political spectrum I can categorize you. Salary (or other benefits in kind, like the company car) is negotiated, after all.



No, you are obviously right. Let's rather replace 2 combustion cars with 3 electric cars *facepalm*
 

WilderSueden

2022-02-21 11:20:25
  • #4
I would find it nice if we moved the discussion somewhere else and here talked about photovoltaics again ;)
 

askforafriend

2022-02-21 11:25:48
  • #5


Yes! After all, it's my thread :) Unfortunately, I'm just a guy who can't simply let blanket false statements stand :(
 

guckuck2

2022-02-21 13:34:46
  • #6


You are right, and therefore this is my last post in this discussion



Your renewed post also does not address my argument at all, and by the way, I am neither left-wing nor socialist. You are greatly mistaken, but apparently I hit a nerve there. I will therefore stop here. I only want to admit that the employee's social security contribution is also paid on the monetary benefit, yes. In this respect, my previous statements were not correct.
 

Similar topics
12.02.2015Photovoltaic systems & storage systems *collective thread*21
05.06.2015Photovoltaic system for hot water preparation and feed-in15
06.08.2015Photovoltaics for hot water26
20.11.2015Solar / Photovoltaic from an economic perspective53
08.06.2017Photovoltaic system, how to use experiences like heat pumps?64
26.04.201616.03.16: Start of photovoltaic assembly60
21.06.2016Heat pump with photovoltaics vs gas and solar thermal52
10.10.2017New photovoltaic system with storage in single-family home - experiences39
18.12.2016Introduction to Photovoltaics (New Construction)25
20.10.2017Roof with photovoltaic or other investment, any experiences?19
01.01.2018Which control system? Control heating/ventilation/air conditioning with an app31
24.07.2019Energy Saving Ordinance 2016 or KFW 55 for bungalow with air-water heat pump & controlled residential ventilation, optional photovoltaic47
24.11.2019Fuel cell or operating costs, photovoltaics and solar thermal?21
23.10.2020Photovoltaics - Questions about Tax/Business78
10.11.2021Photovoltaic system: Costs, saving potential? - Experiences?240
26.07.2021Central control of roller shutters - What solution?80
23.04.2023Is preparing for photovoltaics in new construction sensible?81
31.01.2022Consultation for photovoltaic system227
19.06.2022Assessment of Photovoltaic System Offer33
15.04.2023Photovoltaics at any cost - current situation and offers169

Oben