Prefab house made of Neopor - experiences?

  • Erstellt am 2016-01-26 17:49:06

hotzgeM

2021-04-15 11:40:11
  • #1
Thank you Siegfried for the feedback.
Are the plastic bars fully inserted?
It's not ideal for the insulation, is it?

By the way, some other providers also offer ceilings and roofs.
Floor slabs not always, that's true.
 

tycriss

2021-07-12 01:01:03
  • #2
Hello,
thank you for this informative thread!
I am also interested in building with formwork blocks.
However, I still have a few open questions... Maybe someone here knows the answer...

Project: I want to build a multi-storey commercial building myself, whose exterior walls are freestanding, i.e. there is an interior wall branching off only every 8-10 m. With sand-lime brick or aerated concrete, you would have to plan a reinforced concrete support every 3-5 m. So you could not lay the masonry freely but would constantly have to cut. In commercial construction, one can often use large stones and thus be correspondingly faster finished.
Is my assumption correct that with Neopor you have no problems with the distances because you basically have a reinforced concrete wall?
Do the intermediate ceilings from the system providers have a suitable load capacity (for water tanks, approx. 500 kg/m2) at 6-7 m spans?

Instead of interior plaster, I want to use drywall panels. This way I also save external craftsmen here. Does anyone have practical tips on this?
On the outside, I wanted to combine brick slips and WPC facade. Do you stick the brick slips directly onto the formwork blocks, or do you have to plaster first?

In addition, I want to build by muscle mortgage and invoice my company B for my work performance from my company A (purpose: sales and installation of building materials and technical products and drywall). Only in this way can my own work be considered for subsidies.
Do you need a master craftsman’s certificate for Neopor, as with classical masonry, so that I can forget about it? Or possibly only for concreting?

Thanks in advance to everyone who has advice or answers :)

Best regards
Tycriss
 

Daany29

2021-07-12 14:06:01
  • #3
Hello everyone,

I would also like to share my experiences with Euromac2 wall, roof, and ceiling elements. It all started with an information day in France. We visited the factory there. It made a good and solid impression. The production and storage were tidy. There was no technical instruction. Only the salespeople explained everything. Euromac2 was promoted as the best system that is super fast and has no disadvantages. 100% airtight. No underlay required. Just connect and pour concrete. You got the feeling you would build your house in 3 days. I think that is the trick behind it. But more on that later.

First of all, I have to say you will not build a "cheap" house in one week. It is a lot of work and definitely not faster than a 3-man mason crew from Moldova… Whether the construction goes well depends 100% on the architect and structural engineer. If it is not planned properly for the house, you are doomed. That was the case for me. I built a bungalow 19x10.5m with a staggered shed roof, and half of it has a concrete ceiling. Alone in the walls + ceiling, 2400kg of steel were planned :O that was a horror. Above the windows, I had a cage with 5 12mm bars integrated into the ring beam with its 4x12mm bars. In the corners, 6 x 12mm 90-degree angles each. Ring beams above all load-bearing sand-lime brick walls (all my walls are load-bearing), and so on. I had to make all the cages myself on-site. Because they were 20x10cm and had to be built into the Euromac2 blocks. The steel alone cost me and my 2 helpers several weeks. You just stood there swearing about how to get the damn steel into the Euromac2 walls. There was zero help from Euromac2 during planning. There was a folder with all the data, but things like that were not included. The salesperson told me he had chased away his own structural engineer from the construction site… so much for that. By the way, the salesperson had started his construction at the beginning of 2020. Recently, he laid the screed, so much for building quickly… well. The architect also did not have much understanding of Euromac2. I will also attach some pictures of the steel and plans. Euromac2 should have given specific advice here. For example, cages only 10x10cm so they can be inserted into the blocks and manufactured at the steelworks.

Now, about the construction process.

The blocks were delivered at the end of November, one day later the construction supervisor/guide who brought the alignment supports arrived. He was there around 11 am and then unloading happened. There was about a 2-hour instruction, and the first blocks were placed. That day was already over; it got dark by 4:30 pm. The next day we set up all the alignment supports and put up some more blocks. I had two masons with me. Both started with the sand-lime brick walls while I continued alone with the Euromac2 walls. What struck me negatively was, according to the supervisor, the blocks did not have to be leveled. Just always place two and screw them together. This led to the third block not fitting properly because it was slightly crooked at the bottom and of course bulged out at the top at the window. So, we had to dismantle again, align everything, and tighten anew. Also really annoying was inserting the sliders and tightening them with the blocks on the alignment supports. Every block must be attached to the alignment supports. Often you have the problem that where the block has to go inside is steel, and then it doesn't fit. Or the sliders do not fit because there is also steel in the slider areas. We took one month for all interior walls and the Styrofoam blocks. Then it was New Year's. The whole January I needed for the 100sqm ceiling and all the steel in the ceiling and walls. Then we wanted to pour concrete, but the supervisor was on vacation for 2 weeks. Then it snowed. Then the snow was gone, but the supervisor was on vacation again, and then it snowed again… annoying. On February 26th, the concrete was poured, which ended in a small catastrophe. The supervisor checked all the walls before laying the ceiling to see if I had done anything wrong – in his opinion, everything was perfect and ready for concrete. On the day of concrete pouring, I had a foreman on site, a helper, and the Euromac2 supervisor. We still had a few hours and went through everything. They said everything was perfect. The first mixer was adjusted by the supervisor; the concrete was perfect, flowed reasonably well through the steel, and stayed at the windows. The supervisor did not check the second mixer. Apparently, the driver had put in plasticizer and quite a lot of water. It was much thinner. We poured anyway, and then the first block at an interior wall flew out immediately. We had to support that with planks. Then, it continued; at one interior wall, the exterior wall was pushed out. The Styrofoam walls were cut, and the sand-lime brick interior walls were set against them. The concrete pressure was so high that the exterior wall was pushed away. The screws in the alignment supports broke. The concrete ran into the bathroom. Then a bit further, a slider broke out at a floor-to-ceiling window. The concrete flowed into the living room, and right at the next normal window, the supervisor poured concrete almost up high; with one bang, all the concrete flowed out of the window opening onto the slab. Nerves were frayed. Two people cleaned up, two poured concrete, and in the end, only because the mixer was not properly adjusted despite the supervisor being there. Additionally, it was said that every wall connection should have been screwed with 10x10cm square timber, and all sliders at places where the blocks were cut should have been additionally supported with planks, basically supporting the window reveals laterally. Something had been said about the square timber at the very beginning but I forgot. The sliders were never mentioned. In my opinion, the supervisor failed and did not do his job properly. He saw there were no square timbers installed and said nothing. Well, now I have several slightly crooked walls and had to fill about 2m3 by hand from above to really fill all walls. The concrete pouring of the ceiling went smoothly.

Then it continued with the gable walls, each requiring 6 bars as ring beams. The bars ran straight under the purlins and then went back up again. Hard to describe, just look at the plans. It was an absolute CATASTROPHE to get the steel in there and then to pour concrete afterward. 6x12mm steel in a 15cm block. Also, it was justified that the blocks were not laid level at the bottom. The blocks did not fit at the top anymore. About 3m high, about 2cm were missing, and it wasn't possible to insert. Real mess. Well, everything worked out, again a huge amount of steel installed and poured about a month later on March 22nd. That also didn’t go smoothly; there was too much steel. We had to add plasticizer and vibrate strongly, otherwise the concrete would not have passed through. There were 4 places where no concrete got through. We had to fill those later.

Laying the roof went quickly and well. It is not 100% airtight. Between the purlin and element, there is a light gap that is always there due to the joint. I foamed that. In some corners, water also gets through during heavy rain (without roofing).

All in all, the structural engineer destroyed me. When I look at what others put into their ring beams and what I packed in, I now have a real bunker. The supervisor also said there was way too much steel; apparently, he hadn’t seen that before. Whether the construction runs well or badly depends on the structural engineer and architect – if they don’t know the product, you can forget it, and there is no help from Euromac2. The salesperson stopped contacting me of his own accord. They are pure salespeople, and it is not as cool as described. The Mercedes among the roller shutters from Beck and Heun, which cost almost 5k, the supervisor did not know about. Never installed, etc., etc.

Now, to the probably most important point, the price (GROSS).

The roof cost 22,000 euros for 270sqm = 81€ per sqm

The ceiling cost 5,400 euros for 89sqm = 60€ per sqm

Wall elements cost 25,800 euros for the following elements:

Jumbo 35cm = 137 pcs = 81.32€ unit price net

Normal 35cm = 29 pcs = 24.33€ unit price

Jumbo 25cm = 41 pcs = 57.34€ unit price

Normal 25cm = 9 pcs = 17.13€ unit price

Normal 40cm (with 20cm concrete core) = 144 pcs = 27.20€ unit price

Ceiling edge formwork = 30 pcs = 23.18€ unit price

Sliders lintel floor small parts approx. 700€

Alignment supports from the supervisor 500€

The Jumbo block has about 1sqm; it cost 81.32€. It holds another 150 liters of concrete. Concrete costs about 110€ per m3. So, an additional 16.50€ for concrete – so the wall costs 116€ per sqm without labor, only material. What you save, of course, is the insulation.

I had 50m3 concrete in the walls and ceiling. That was including 2 pumps 7,378€

In addition, steel 1,650€

Purlins for the roof including fastening 7,500€

Sand-lime brick walls inside including labor 11,000€

Shell construction total without BPL gross = 80,528€, and here I did everything myself or had no costs with the Styrofoam blocks – for a 165sqm bungalow – what is supposedly cheaper and faster, I have no idea.

In retrospect, the ceiling is too expensive. Filigree is cheaper and goes much faster.

The roof is also more expensive than a standard insulation. Due to the lower static load, you need thicker purlins, which wipes out the savings on the rafters completely. It’s not really airtight (100%) either.

Everything takes forever until the blocks are standing and can be concreted; there are a thousand work steps. Even the masons who built the interior walls were not exactly enthusiastic about the product. My neighbor started building his city villa last week. Monday earthworks and canal, Tuesday concrete shell, Wednesday started masonry, and by Friday evening, the supports for the filigree ceiling were already standing with three guys from Poland. Great. That’s how it should run. He took Poroton and has now clad the facade, and in another week, the facade will be completely finished. If he had taken Ytong, he would have been just as fast as me with Euromac2 in a fraction of the time. The masons cost me 25€ per hour including invoice. And every work step fit; it just goes fast. You can’t let a mason work with Euromac2. You have to work more precisely, and he simply doesn’t know it. So, you are 100% on your own when you start with it, and every other trade is initially afraid of it. The electrician is afraid of how it’s with the Styrofoam. The roofer doesn’t know exactly how to do the roof, etc. By the time you have carried, set up, and aligned your alignment supports, the half ground floor is already standing with 3 masons. You have a lot of work around Euromac2: with the supports, the sliders, fastening, and then the steel. Also, the bracing for the concrete. Support all sliders, support all transitions to the interior walls, etc. Where 3 masons built the whole floor in 3 days, you need only for side activities. The concreting also takes a whole day. Until the supervisor is there, you start around 12. It takes about 3 hours plus cleaning up, so a day off work is gone.

I would advise anyone against such a system who does not have a structural engineer/planner who knows 100% about it. Only then can it work, and if even the salesperson doesn’t have a capable planner and structural engineer, you will not find one either…. I would have planned my second house completely differently and built it in a quarter of the time with much better quality… When you do masonry, you are done when the block is set. The product is good, the surroundings are awful. Euromac2 should provide their own structural engineers and planners or at least mediate contact so that it really works well. That is my honest opinion. Often you get the feeling that builders sugarcoat everything just so they don’t have to admit it was a bad decision.

Best regards Daniel
 

Daany29

2021-07-12 14:21:41
  • #4
Attached are the images I need to split








 

Daany29

2021-07-12 14:28:48
  • #5
And some more pictures for you









 

haydee

2021-07-12 14:58:51
  • #6
Thank you for the unvarnished report
 

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