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@ How many years did you set the term for?

I honestly don’t know anymore; but I think 30 years was “normal” in the 80s. Rhineland regards

Before I read this thread tonight as evening reading, I have a quick question for understanding:

Young people, all around their mid-20s and employed at private banks. ... These arrogant teenagers - I can hardly call them anything else - earn a good EUR 60k/year for something that used to be simply "normal"; part of learning the profession. When I explained to them that they are being burned out - considering working hours and performance - they didn't want to believe it

Do you think that earning 60,000 gross per year is being burned out? Mind you, a mid-twenty-year-old as a so-called starting salary with regular day shifts?

I find that a very decent salary, some people might dream of it their whole life.

Regards Yvonne

Young people, all around their mid-20s and employed at private banks. They hesitated to talk about their salary, so I asked Aunt Google (sometimes the internet really is a good invention). These arrogant teens – I can hardly describe them otherwise – earn a good EUR 60k/year for something that used to be simply "normal"; it was part of learning the trade. When I explained to them that they are being burned out – considering working hours and performance – they didn’t want to accept it and argued that all "senior" positions were open to them because they had studied business administration and were being further trained by a "bank" (which supposedly pays trainees the best; [which btw is not true, Bayer® alone already pays more]). An example of one of their statements: if they were offered a job after the trainee phase where they only had to work from 7:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., they would be happy.

Do you think that someone is being burned out with 60,000 gross per year? Mind you, a mid-twenties person as a so-called starting salary with regular daytime hours?
I think that is a very decent salary, one that many people dream of their entire lives.

Hmm – similar to Yvonne, I had also thought so.
If I now calculate my Luxembourg net salary up to German gross, I might end up at about this salary level after approximately 20 years of working and several years in a position that is not unimportant for my bank. OK – other players on the market pay better, but in turn have even more intense demands, which I wouldn’t know how to manage alongside family. But 60k EUR/year is something that quite a few would drool over.
However, you shouldn’t paint all trainees with the same brush. On the one hand, there are quite a few who work at renowned companies (including banks) for peanuts in order to gain experience to show. On the other hand, of course, working hours as you described them are brutal.

And – to pity the poor little ones a bit more: when these trainees, with this current salary, actually come to reality (meaning they look for their first real job), they will be quite shocked when the employer offers them an annual salary of 30k EUR.

Hello Yvonne,

Do you think that someone is being burnt out with 60,000 gross per year? Mind you, a person in their mid-twenties as a so-called starting salary with regulated daytime shifts?

Yes and no

First of all, I wanted to clarify that training compensation these days can vary greatly. These guys (trainee is a training level, as I was allowed to learn) receive a lot of money for something that in earlier times was expected by the employer as "on-the-job training" without additional pay.

In my opinion, they are still being burnt out, if I may believe them based on what they told me about their daily routine (currently no regulated daytime shifts). The irony of the whole thing: they don’t recognize it, only look at their pay slip and dream of authorized officer positions and higher callings. They are convinced that job offers will be flying their way in the foreseeable future or that they will open a café in the Bahamas afterwards.

I think that is a very decent salary, which some people may dream of their whole life.

Agreed, no question. These days, the study of business administration probably opens all floodgates.

Best regards from the Rhineland

Hello f-pNo,

However, one should not paint all trainees with the same brush.

I can and do not want to; I have only "by chance" spent time with these 4 guys. I also do not want to imagine that all trainees have internalized this "spirit." If so, I would really be shocked...

And - to pity the poor little ones a bit more: When these trainees, with their current salary, then arrive in reality (i.e., start looking for their first proper job), they will be quite shocked when the employer offers them an annual salary of 30,000 EUR.

I tried to explain it to them in a similar way; with no success, I fear. Because it will almost certainly be as you describe, I wrote in my reply that, from my subjective point of view, they are currently being burned out.

Rhineland greetings

Even though this is off topic here... I had to google again:

During the training year

CompensationEUR
Grossapprox. 40,020 EUR
Netapprox. 24,860 EUR
After the training* per year

Compensationupon taking a positionafter one year on the jobafter three years on the job
Grossapprox. 47,010 EURapprox. 52,150 EURapprox. 54,960 EUR
Netapprox. 28,790 EURapprox. 31,270 EURapprox. 32,630 EUR
* The stated earnings figures are based on the TVöD (pay group 13, higher service) and include a banking allowance.

Source: German Bundesbank

Those are different figures than 60,000... at least for the German Bundesbank. Still, I get a little gag reflex when I read black on white that bank employees of the DBB are paid according to TVöD higher service, plus they get a banking allowance (I wonder why... is there a hardship in the job???), xxx censored by myself xxx .. anyway, personal bad luck... (just a quick k**)
and let's stay factual

However, apprenticeships are not gentlemen’s years, that’s how I learned it. Therefore, I also have the attitude that if you are young, you can be satisfied with less if the job is exotic or outside the norm (e.g., years abroad) or you have to work hard for more money, even if it’s at night

That’s why I don’t understand some young people wanting to build and become immovable in their twenties immediately and at all costs, and — here we come to the topic — they then of course fixate anxiously on the last decimal place.

Whoever builds a house should not depend on whether the interest rate is at 2.3 or 2.4. If it is, more is amiss than 0.1 percentage points more or less. There is life beyond the house

If you realize after 40 that this early stress with daily calculations and fretting over a tenth of a percent is always linked with more gray hair and cholesterol in old age, often also with the loss of your own family, you give it up quickly