Cat poop or wild animal droppings? Warning; pile picture!

Above you wrote that self-defense does not have to be proportional. That is not true. See excessive self-defense. Also, not every act of self-defense is legitimate defense.

Hello Knallkörper

Excessive self-defense occurs when self-defense has been exceeded. Example: Someone attacks you. You successfully defend yourself. The attacker lies unconscious on the ground. You kick him strongly again. This is excessive self-defense.
Proportionality does not have to be given. Except in extremely severe disproportion. See "Kirschbaum case".

Steven

No, the "principle of proportionality" does not exist there. Even in the self-defense courses that I occasionally give, the opinion often arises that self-defense must be proportional. No, it does not have to be.

Steven

Has proportionality been abolished in case law? Law was not exactly my major in university and it's been 20 years now. But I would be surprised. As far as I know, it always applies - in every field of law. What was it again: the measure must be suitable, proportional, and ... forgotten!

Has proportionality been abolished in case law? : the measure must be suitable, proportional and ... - forgotten!

Hello,

and the mildest of several equivalent options
I wrote that proportionality is only to be observed if there is an extremely stark contradiction. See the cherry tree case.
Although I admit that German self-defense law is an extremely liberal law.
A short example of equivalence: You are at home, and a break-in is taking place. Now you have pepper spray, a spade handle, and a pistol. Are they equivalent? No. There would be nothing against you immediately using the weapon.
Why?
Pepper spray can be effective, but doesn’t have to be.
A spade handle can also be. If the opponent is, for example, a martial artist, you take a big risk.
The weapon is the most suitable to immediately end the unlawful attack.

Steven

Hello kaho

it is quite normal that cat owners greatly exaggerate the number of caught (or rather one should say cruelly killed) mice, while shamelessly understating this for birds. The truth is that cats are heavily involved in the decline of wild birds. It is the same with hares.

Steven

I still estimate that domestic cats actually catch fewer birds than feral cats. We had exactly 2 birds in 4 years, both of which were freed and managed to escape. Mice 2-3 every week. This is probably also because we have installed cat protection on the trees etc.

The many cats are definitely a problem for the birds. But I believe the destruction of habitats by agriculture is worse. Apparently, the bird catchers in southern countries, who catch migratory birds en masse with gigantic nets, are said to be severe as well.

The many cats are definitely a problem for the birds. But I think even worse is the destruction of habitats caused by agriculture. The birdcatchers in the southern countries are said to be extreme as well, capturing migratory birds en masse with gigantic nets.

Hello kaho It is true that urbanization brings great problems for many wild animals. Up to the extinction of entire populations. And the cats contribute to that. The birdcatchers in the south are also a problem, but nowhere near as extreme as is often portrayed by animal protection organizations. Bird catching is forbidden. That there is plenty of poaching is not a legal problem, rather an enforcement problem. In bird catching, we are talking about a few million birds (sorry, it's severe, but I try to write unemotionally) while free-roaming cats kill a three-digit million number per year just in Germany. Steven

Hello,

and the mildest of several equivalent options
I wrote that proportionality is only to be considered when there is an extremely severe contradiction. See the cherry tree case.

Now I am confused. I don't know self-defense law at all. But it surely won't involve a cat AA. I think the severity of the contradiction is less decisive.

It will probably be examined which good outweighs the other: cat's life versus enduring or cleaning up feces. I suspect everyone considers life to be of higher value, even if it is just one thing. But I really don't know.