Single-family house from 1987. Evaluation of the price and the "necessary" work

For the unrenovated year of construction, yes.

Caution: This is an energy consumption certificate and not an energy demand certificate. Without knowing how many people lived in the house in the reference year (probably 2021) and how many rooms were heated, the information is of little significance.

I read 120 sqm of living space on the ground and upper floors. For €1,300 I then come to €156,000.

Your username makes me suspect that you are a professional and renovate houses in NRW yourself. You do know the difference between living space and the gross floor area (GFA) I mentioned, right? My estimate of "just under 200 sqm" has already been approximately confirmed by the OP.

Do you have to do electricity, water, and sewage? Look at the pipes and then decide. Copper pipes could still last 30-50 years without problems. And electricity depends on your own wishes, not on a "MUST."

Well, recommendations for the service life of these components are between 40 and 50 years. I can’t find the up to 85 years service life you mentioned in any source.
And I already pointed out that the difficulty with a 35-year-old house is that you cannot make easy decisions.
On the other hand, certain jobs are many times easier when the house is unoccupied. And if the OP moves in here, he will be living there for at least 20, maybe even 50 years.

You can check for pollutants beforehand; no nasty surprises are to be expected for this year of construction.

This statement may apply to solid houses but certainly not to prefabricated houses.
Formaldehyde was banned in 1986, but that does not provide security for the construction year 1987 (probably the year of acceptance). Lindane was not banned until 2008, even though its use was reduced starting in the ’80s. PCP was banned in 1989. Asbestos was banned in 1993. This is, at most, present in this house in a strongly bonded form and does not affect health from mere dwelling, but it naturally increases renovation costs enormously.

Heat pumps also work excellently with suitable radiators.

It can work, but not excellently. And if you are going to knock out the floor anyway, then underfloor heating is the method of choice. Low-temperature radiators are more for heat pump installations in inhabited houses.

I have actually found it now (if it is the one with the conservatory). However, I do not see that it is still available. Even the automatic linking on eBay is gone. I personally would not renovate a house so extensively that it has the character of a new building. You have to be able to afford that. But the energy aspect is noteworthy.

Caution: This is a consumption certificate and not a demand certificate. Without knowing how many people lived in the house in the reference year (probably 2021) and how many rooms were heated, the information is of little significance.

Since the consumption certificate takes the last THREE years into account, it is better suited than the theoretical demand certificate (which I myself do not think much of, as it has no real informative value).
By the way, you can also subtly ask who lived there and how it was heated.

Your username makes me suspect that you are a professional and renovate houses in NRW yourself. You know the difference between living space and the [BGF] I mentioned, right? My estimate of "just under 200 m²" has already been roughly confirmed by the OP.

Sort of, my username was chosen arbitrarily because I was kicked out under my two original names and almost 10,000 posts :rolleyes:. Aside from that, I work professionally in the real estate industry and am myself an investor/house builder/renovator. And yes, I know the difference between [GIF]/[GBF]/living space etc.

Well, recommendations for the service life of these components are between 40 and 50 years. I cannot find the up to 85 years of service life you mentioned in any source.

The service life of copper pipes, for example, depends on the water. Experience shows that problems occur with highly mineralized water (deposits) and at solder joints. So check them. Otherwise, the pipes last even 100 years.
I could show you pipes from the 60s that you cannot distinguish from pipes from 2020.
Wastewater pipes from that time are already made of plastic. They will outlast even your grandchildren.
Electricity is normal three-core cables; the literature states a service life of 40-50 years, but it is usually significantly longer. RCDs have been mandatory since 1984. So no worries there either. Millions of people live in fully functional apartments where the installations do not follow rule-of-thumb formulas but just work.
There are recommendations for roofs as well, but the specific individual case is decisive. A freestanding and quite steep roof will last longer than a flat roof where there is also shading from trees.

This statement may apply to solid houses, but definitely not to prefab houses.
Formaldehyde was banned in 1986, but this gives no certainty for the construction year 1987 (probably the year of acceptance).

That’s why you can just check, as I wrote. But a rethink began in the mid-80s, so I really do not expect any big surprises.

It can work, but not excellently. And if you are going to knock out the floor anyway, then underfloor heating is the method of choice. Low-temperature radiators are more for heat pump installations in occupied houses.

I have to disagree with you there. Yes, it works excellently with radiators. And who says you will be removing the screed anyway?
There are a) correspondingly sized 33-type radiators or b) even heat pump radiators specifically designed for heat pumps. In a properly insulated house, you can then also work with a 30-degree supply temperature. Some even do this in new builds (which I don’t understand...).

Maybe just a few brief pieces of information beforehand, which I, among other things, forgot to mention.
- The house has a fireplace

- I just found more floor plans, sections, etc. on the real estate agent portal with the following information:
FISCHER-Fertighaus GmbH 8465 Bodenwöhr
TYPE CA 79
Single-family house with garage
- Roof:
Gable roof 38°
Wood construction according to statics
Frankfurt tile
- Basement
Insulating plaster
Bitumen coating
Drainage boards

The documents are from October 85. So one can assume that construction started in 86?

Can you make more sense of the above data? Does Fischer Haus mean anything to you?

I can just give a few details. The house is off the net anyway (except Mapio) so what the heck.
It’s about the postal code 42897 -> Google Maps image is stuck on

Do you need the basement as living space?

NEED? No. In the attic there are 3 rooms plus a bathroom. In the basement there is about an 18m² bedroom. That’s a dream at these temperatures :) But currently (we have a 2.5-year-old daughter) it wouldn’t be used as a bedroom, rather as a gaming room or something :)

Well, how intensively have you dealt with prefabricated houses so far? Also, a simple Google search “Hazardous substances prefabricated houses” is enough. In general, prefab houses from the 60s to 80s are questionable. Now your candidate is from the second half of the 80s. That’s when manufacturers just started to change. But that’s no reason to reassure. Without air analysis, nothing is certain. It is also warned against simply assessing by manufacturer and year of construction, because some manufacturers themselves do not know exactly until when contaminated stockpiles were still used. Some manufacturers only give a clean bill of health for building years from the mid-90s.
I would already have severe doubts that the real estate agent has not mentioned this fact in the listing. That is an absolute key feature.

Then I have to check again with the real estate agent here.
It was probably built in 1986. I grew up in the area. I know some people there, still today. The parental house of a longtime school friend is two houses away. I talked to the father about this house. He told me they all built there in 1985/86. But I have no information about hazardous substances etc. I attach a few pictures below for a better impression

I actually found it now (if it’s the one with the conservatory). But I don’t see that it’s still available. Even the automatic link on eBay is removed.
Personally, I wouldn’t renovate a house so intensively that it has a new-build character. You have to be able to afford that. But the energy aspect is noteworthy.

Then you searched correctly.

It is still available but taken down everywhere else from the net. As already said, the agent seems very confident.

I don’t quite understand your last sentence "But the energy aspect is noteworthy." In what sense? A lot to do?

Since the consumption certificate takes the last THREE years into account, it is better suited than the theoretical requirements certificate (which I myself don’t rate highly since it has no real meaningfulness).
By the way, you can subtly inquire who and how it was lived in/heated.

The service life of copper pipes, for example, depends on the water.

That’s why one can look into it, as I advised. But a change of thinking began in the mid-80s, so I actually don’t expect any major surprises.

I have to disagree with you there. Yes, it works excellently with radiators. And who says you will remove the screed anyway?
There are a) suitably dimensioned 33 radiators or b) even heat pump-specific radiators. In a properly insulated house, you can then also operate with 30 degrees flow temperature. Some even do that in new builds (which I don’t understand...).

The water here has top quality -> 42897.

I am attaching operating cost statements here (I just received them last night)
Now I have to ask stupidly. The sum 1689.09€ for 2020/2021 Is that then the heating costs for the year? So about 140€/month?
Unfortunately, I currently have no access to our statements for the condominium...

Do you have an APPROXIMATE rough estimate regarding heat pumps? Should one reckon with 10k or rather 40k?

My plans are probably the following:
- I would definitely replace all windows. In this context then the existing blinds would be made electric
- Floors out, of course. But I won’t smash out the screed just to install underfloor heating. On the one hand, I don’t want such big effort. On the other hand, we currently have underfloor heating in our condo and don’t like it that much
- New doors
- For visual reasons we would probably replace the radiators with these "flat" ones. I hope you know what I mean.
- I would have the roof checked by a known roofer. Depending on what he tells me, I will act. Honestly, I can’t imagine the roof is not insulated. But I will also ask about that again.
- I won’t touch water pipes etc. Unless at the next viewing with tradesmen something stands out.
I would probably "optimize" electrical wiring. We have electricians we know; let’s see what they say -> Keyword LAN cables etc.
- I would also have the gas heating checked. Although a new one was installed here in 2011

I am attaching operating cost statements here (I received them last night) But now I have to ask a stupid question. The amount €1689.09 for 2020/2021 Is that the heating cost for the year? So ~€140 / month? Unfortunately, I currently have no access to our statements for the condominium...

25,000 kWh for gas currently costs about €600 per month!!!!!!!! So I quickly retract my statement that it is energetically not bad or the residents had a permanent sauna. Otherwise, the house looks well maintained. Something has always been done here and there. First, you can call Fischer and ask what materials were installed. The company is still active. First measure: insulate the roof (the roof looks great from the outside) Second measure: insulate the basement ceiling and stop heating the basement (you can also use the gaming room with a sweater) Third measure: new windows Fourth measure: have the energy consumption checked with the aforementioned renovations and consider switching to a heat pump Fifth measure: heat pump with new 33-type radiators And only then cosmetic measures.

25,000 kWh for gas currently costs about €600 per month!!!!!!!! So I quickly retract my statement that it’s not bad energetically, or the residents must have had a permanent sauna.
Otherwise, the house looks well maintained. Something has always been done to it from time to time.

First, you can call Fischer and ask what materials were used. The company is still active.

I really have no clues at the moment. 25,000 kWh ... a lot, little? Apparently a huge amount if I understand you correctly :)
A sauna was not operated, no :)

At €600 heating costs per month, we don’t even need to continue talking :D Then the topic is settled anyway

Just called Fischer... The lady had no idea or didn’t want to help. The statement was that there are no documents from back then, and there have been internal changes repeatedly.
The realtor wants to check with the owner again.