Photovoltaics at any cost - current situation and offers

Hi,
regarding the fence thingies:

there is currently a nice little hype around them with some developers trying to collect funding and investment money. They don’t have any real use. It is completely out of the question to use any rotating elements as a fence. How do you want to secure that? What if a child puts their hand in there? Animals try to get through? How do you prevent reflections that blind drivers?

As a proof of concept and test to see if something like that works, it’s all cool and exciting. But I don’t see any chances for real implementation. At most on a fenced-off area, but wouldn’t it then be more sensible to just put a conventional installation there?!?

Best regards,

Andreas

Moin, regarding the fence things: this is currently such a nice hype with which some developers want to collect funding and investment money. They have no real benefit. It is completely out of the question to use any rotating elements as a fence. How do you want to secure that? What if a child puts their hand in there? Animals trying to run through there? How do you prevent reflections that dazzle drivers? As proof of concept and test whether something like that works, it’s all cool and exciting. But I don’t see any chances for real implementation. At best on a fenced-off area, but wouldn’t it then be more sensible to put a conventional system there?!? Many greetings, Andreas

Then look up Panel Wiatrowy. That already goes in the direction of solving the problems you mentioned. If necessary, a thin kind of wire mesh fence must be placed around it. Then it serves as a normal fence, in single-family homes or also in industrial areas.

I have also read something like that. Wind turbines in fence form, less vulnerable, very effective, but not yet ready for mass production. Maybe our government will manage to invest some funding in such projects and in production.

In general, I hope that the turbines will become cheaper again when China abandons its zero-Covid policy and maybe corresponding productions are established in other countries. We had that in Germany; if they hadn’t been allowed to go bankrupt but subsidized, we would be in a better position now. Corresponding skilled workers could also have been trained in 2 to 3 years.

- less vulnerable than previous turbines, more effective than previous turbines. Still always far from photovoltaic efficiency.

- China will never soften zero-Covid unless there is a change in leadership.

- In Germany, they did not let them go bankrupt but rather forced them into bankruptcy from and to the state hand by subsequently creating conditions that only had this (politically desired) goal.

- for skilled workers you want to train, you need people who want to do it AND who are there. I consider both rather unlikely in this sector.

... life is just not a bed of roses ...

If these mini wind turbines should become ready for mass production soon, then maybe the photovoltaic price will drop? Then you would be faced with the choice of whether to use wind or sun.

There are already prototype mini wind turbines that are invisible to the naked eye (micrometers, etched like chips, not “mini generators” but (I am no longer sure) a kind of piezoelectric transmission or another type without much mechanical effort. The surface area of a phone case would be enough to charge the phone.

Yes, but it would be worth pursuing further. Almost everyone has fence space or almost everyone could set one up.

Not almost everyone has fence space, and especially not good fence space. Because point 3 from my list becomes extremely amplified here. A 10-15m mast next to 6-8m houses is already bad in terms of wind. Such a fence structure is at 0-2m height, where you are even more in the wind shadow. Possibly a hedge behind the fence, but even the neighbor’s hedge across the street is enough. These effects are particularly strong at low to medium wind speeds. Of course, it is initially worthwhile to research in all directions; overall, a few million for prototypes is a bargain. But one must also be realistic about expectations, and even if we manage to secure things like rotating fence parts with wire cages according to standards, the placement is simply not good. There are reasons why “normal wind turbines” are built very high and also why they are mainly located in northern Germany, where the land is flatter and thus the wind is better. All the news sites naturally hype this as the new great thing because it generates so many nice clicks. It’s like with the hydrogen car. In my youth, it was already “the future,” and meanwhile 30 years have passed and these things are still better prototypes.

Hello,

Then take a look at Panel Wiatrowy. That already points in the direction of a solution to the problems you mentioned. If necessary, you can put a thin kind of wire mesh fence around it. Then it serves as a normal fence, in a single-family house or also at industrial sites.

you mean this here?



In a fenced-off area, yes, sure, it can be a cool idea. But as a fence? Never! The attempt to get approval for that is hopeless. Something like that is classified as a machine in Europe and there is a machinery directive and CE marking for it. That simply doesn’t work.

Apart from the fact that the efficiency of a wind turbine at 0-2 m height will be pretty poor. There are reasons why wind turbines nowadays have hub heights of 100-150 m.

Best regards,

Andreas

Fence area is not something almost everyone has, and especially not good fence area. Because point 3 from my list is drastically amplified there. A 10-15m mast next to 6-8m houses is already bad in terms of wind. Such a fence system comes to 0-2m height, so you are much more in the wind shadow. Possibly a hedge behind the fence, but even the hedge from the neighbor opposite is enough. These effects are particularly strong at low to medium wind speeds.

Many properties have fence area. Where no one is yet, you can put one up. Of course not a hedge in front of it. And you must not always assume your mountainous region. There is also plenty of flat land in Germany where it is quite windy. Naturally less so in the city, but in the flat Mecklenburg or Brandenburg countryside in my view that could work quite well. Of course not every technology fits every area. And of course these devices will not be as effective as a large wind turbine. But at least you can set these devices in the village, they bother no one. Unlike the wind turbine. I think in the long run it can only be a mix of different technologies that helps us. And from my point of view research in all directions is worthwhile.