How to afford building a house and buying land today?

Hehe, debt-free property for retirement is a myth?
So as a tenant, you save so much that you can pay for a house in cash at retirement? I don’t think that’s a myth, but it is the reality for 90% of tenants.

Please read carefully. I was talking about repayment. And from the repayment as a savings rate, you have to at least deduct maintenance. Because unlike rent, the money must be invested to preserve value.
That means if you sell a property for €200k after 25-30 years, you haven’t saved €200k. From that you have to deduct the investments for value preservation, which you wouldn’t have as a tenant.

And the next comment proves it. Repayment in the amount of the savings rate.
If he had continued saving at that level, he could have bought the house in cash after a hypothetical 25 years. The money could also be invested wisely so that at least inflation is offset. And all this without investments over time.

If you want to make money with real estate, you have to rent out or speculate.

No matter, you will never always agree, it is all much too individual.
In the further course you write "We all agree that..." and personally I have to directly contradict you on almost all points

I mean, we all agree that buying something that costs for example 500,000EURO and is financed over 30 years always carries a risk?

The risk is not determined by the purchase price, for me risk is solely the resaleability, in case a catastrophe happens. 500,000€ in the middle of nowhere might be unsellable, in Munich a risk-free bargain. Other risks depend e.g. on the job, but not on the value of the property.

We all also agree that in principle or for most here in the forum, living in a house, if you can afford it, is more fun than living in a 2-room apartment under the roof?

An unfair comparison. How about a 2-room rented apartment vs 2-room owner-occupied apartment? There are also people who don’t want or need a garden. I have a self-made millionaire in the family who lives exactly like that in a rented place.

Because, installment 1650EUR, reserve 150, 1 car 500 all-in, additional costs 200, insurances 200, retirement provision 300, food 1000, hobby etc 200...
In this calculation nothing must simply go wrong. We all agree on that, right?

No, because we will never agree on any numbers regarding household management. An example: Our car is 250 all-in and we shop cheaper in addition. And suddenly there are 500 euros more available for a property. Oh here one can argue very very long without agreement.

If at the end of the month all running costs are paid and you have 50EUR left, then you CAN buy the house. But probably nobody here in the forum would recommend it. Right?

Everything paid and then at least 500EUR left... Then in my opinion one can just start thinking realistically about a house. My opinion.

First, one would have to agree on a basis of calculation as to what "at the end of the month" means. Are vacation and reserves already included? If yes, then you could even build with 1 euro surplus without problems. There are no major maintenance costs at the beginning, a new car is already fully included in your 500 all-in. So what could happen? I have NEVER spontaneously needed a 4-digit sum anywhere in my life.

Many people are simply willing to take this risk.

Here I fully agree with you

Just as much as for the apartment with €1,250 cold rent. With almost the same problems as the homeowner - rising rents in addition.

Unfortunately, most people just don't understand that ... my installment stays the same for the next 20 years, nobody knows that with rent.

What I often find missing here in the comparison between ownership and renting are the costs of ownership. Starting with interest costs, notary, etc. And the absolutely most important thing: maintenance. A property is basically not suitable for saving. Here a fitting, there something for irrigation, the lawn mower, etc etc. Yes, with renting you have to expect an increase now and then. But if something is broken, I call the landlord and that's that. We also have a single-family house. But with over €4000 net and two children, we limited ourselves to a rate of a little over €800. We looked for corresponding properties. New building was not an option because of the construction costs. Freedom is, besides time independence, also financial independence. I explicitly DO NOT want to hold back or even have to calculate daily comforts. I am living now, after all. Who knows what tomorrow brings? And then having to worry whether I can/want to go out to eat for the third time this week? No thanks.

I think that's great, but here in Bavaria in the metropolitan area, it's not possible at all... Rental apartment 1300 euros cold, I'd rather build and pay €250 more than before, I have something of my own... so you always have to look at WHERE you build.... In Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, I would also rather rent.

So if I pay 1300 somewhere for a cold apartment, then a house there probably costs 1 million.

And now I calculate primitively, just as I am

The 500 euros you pay more than the tenant I calculate over 30 years. That's 180,000 euros. Then interest of around 100,000 euros, which is still calculated generously, we're already at 280,000 euros that I don't have to pay as a tenant. Maintenance costs and renovation on top of that and we're over 300,000.

That's money I don't have to finance as a tenant in these 30 years. For me, a clear reason not to take on huge sums for housing.

I'd rather keep saving equity and look for cheap divorce houses in 10 to 20 years
If we really want something of our own.

Sounds harsh, but it's reality. Many relationships simply can't withstand the building and financing stress.

So if I pay 1300 somewhere for a cold apartment, then a house there probably costs 1 million.

20 times the annual rent. In Munich also 30-35.

You keep comparing apples and oranges here, as the saying goes.

What is the loan interest for the owner is the landlord's return for the tenant.