How do you assess this house? How much budget will be necessary?

I don't understand the aversion to instantaneous water heaters.

Probably because I've never had one.

I wouldn't assign any importance to that, only that the realtor apparently completely misvalued the house, namely according to the plot size and living area.

It's almost always the same realtor offering the houses in that neighborhood. Long established in the market.

However, I have the feeling that he doesn't evaluate the houses at all but offers them directly at the buyers' price expectations.

To me, the house for 290,000, which looks like a semi-detached house, makes a much better impression than the one you have in mind.

The house has probably been on the market for over a year. It is listed again and again. The impression is indeed not bad, but it is a semi-detached house.

I also see the old pitched roof. I already see black spots on the plaster, the wooden cladding in the shower toilet could be hiding something. The edge looks strangely dark.
An energy efficiency of F is certainly something that can deter potential buyers.

Thank you very much for this information, by the way!

These are things that experienced people here can already recognize from the pictures, and we wouldn't even notice them during the first viewing!

With a building like this, I would never, ever do anything without an expert; we are simply too inexperienced for that.

Hello dear forum,

my husband and I have a property in mind.

In July, we looked at the direct neighboring house, which had "only" 140 sqm of living space and was completely renovated. Since the house on the upper floor had sloped ceilings, it was not an option for us.

The realtor then showed us the house in the listing. However, only like "this wouldn't be for you, but it costs 319k". He then only showed us the garden of the house. We declined because it was too expensive.

Then we signed the realtor service agreement for the first house, but no purchase came about. Meanwhile, the neighboring house with 140 sqm of living space, 1 garage, 700 sqm plot, and fully renovated was sold for about 370k.

In the meantime, the realtor listed the house from 319k to 309k, then to 299k, and finally for 252k. The listing is now offline.

Now the heirs' community has privately listed the house for 265k.

How high do you estimate the renovation costs at first glance? For a new build, most here estimate about €2000 per sqm. How high should you estimate the costs for a renovation?

Important to us: No instant water heaters – always warm water, new bathrooms, new kitchen, new floors.

I asked today for a floor plan and possibly done renovations. Answer still pending. I would then add it.

What "scares" us is that it could be a bottomless pit, as it is a relatively old house.

I would really appreciate any assessments on which trades would necessarily have to be "considered" for a house of this age. Were things like asbestos already an issue at that time?!

I am happy about any hints & tips!

Thanks in advance

Hi Yaso,

Plan with 50k. (Just a rough estimate).
Specifically:

10k for floors in the house.
5k for a few windows or doors (if necessary)
10k for electrical work (if necessary)
10k for the kitchen
15k for the bathrooms

I would only change heating and water if it is really necessary. I haven't read everything concerning heating/water... But if everything must absolutely be redone, you have to spend about another 20k for new pipes and gas boiler, etc...

Then build up a monthly reserve and you’re good.

Of course, if you want to turn it into a "Schöner Wohnen" hut, then you should invest another 350k.

My tip: Do what is necessary immediately. Then relax and do the rest when you feel like it. You MAY not have to do anything at all. You can nicely do everything yourself on a low budget whenever you want/can.

Just try to keep the monthly costs as low as possible, then life is much better in my opinion.

I prefer living in an "ok hut" relaxed for €200 per month repayment over 20 years, rather than in a "top-class hut" for €1400 per month for 30 years plus a remaining debt of 100k.

Don’t drive yourself crazy that everything has to happen quickly immediately.
Do what is necessary and don’t overdo it. Then decorate nicely inside and life is great.

With a building like this I would never, ever do anything without an expert, we're simply too inexperienced for that.

Exactly the right approach. You can also assess energy efficiency quite well with some research and experience – building fabric from the war period (actually nobody really built houses then) + unclear annex should be thoroughly examined.

and have already shown the full range of renovation possibilities. In principle, the house looks habitable, no damage, everything works, it gets warm, plaster and paint on the walls, etc. So, currently you absolutely do NOT have to renovate anything, but many things suggest themselves before moving in. You can also gut the whole house down to the shell and install the latest standard and some luxury, and if you want, sink €150,000 or more. It’s all a question of requirements and circumstances. I would tend towards a balanced middle ground.

Regarding the energy certificate, I wouldn’t worry:
Windows most likely from 1980-1990 (you can easily check – it’s always stamped or printed on the spacer bar running around the glass in the sashes – that is the silver rim around the glass). For good frames, just replace the glass, otherwise the whole window.
Glass replacement costs €100-130/m² glass, so about €4,000.
Complete replacement: €400-500/m², so €20,000.

Exterior wall probably 24 cm double brick row + plaster, plus radiator niches, with 11.5cm wall thickness. This will be the biggest weak point where a lot of effort is needed to improve it (ETICS).
With thicker walls (just measure), it looks different. The wall structure of the annex or extension is questionable. Maybe there are documents available?
ETICS: €150/m² wall, about €20,000 – probably the most expensive item, but with ETICS you can leave the radiator niches as they are.

Otherwise, definitely close the radiator niches; for that, you'll need to install new radiators and pipes.
Costs: own work + construction adhesive + aerated concrete.

The roof is definitely still quite young and hopefully properly insulated, so no need for action (very major cost factor).

The heating is definitely written off, especially if no central hot water generation is available. As a single person no problem, but with wife and child it will be expensive in the long run. If you want to retrofit hot water, you should install a new heating system at the same time, maybe you have to anyway. For hot water you will need new pipes, so you might as well replace all others at the same time.
Costs: heating €8,000, radiators €3,000-5,000, pipes (water, heating) €3,000-6,000.

We already covered bathrooms: it will be around €15,000 somewhere if you have everything done without luxury, especially tiling and waterproofing cost time and money.

You need to look at the electrics. Maybe nothing needs to be renewed, or just a few extra sockets, or complete replacement.
So anything between €0 and €10,000 is possible.

Without electrics, you end up with about €50,000 - 60,000 including ETICS and new panes. Another €10,000 for small stuff and reserve.

Unclear:
Foundation / statics, especially with annex?
Basement? Available? Dry?

I think the house is okay. You can live in it. It won't win any beauty awards, partly because of the low ceilings. The roof looks good from the outside - at least that would be a concern for me. When it comes to renovation, I see plumbing, heating + radiators first (although you might want to consider insulation here) and sooner rather than later the windows. Only a professional on site can say for sure. If the price has already dropped that much, you could cheekily start with under 200k and cite the backlog of renovations as a reason. If the family is selling themselves, they will also show the property themselves. You can walk through the house together with the expert. He will then tell them what needs to be done and also give them a talking-to about the price. I definitely wouldn’t pay more than 200k for it.

I don’t know your prices up there, but for the huge plot, the large living space, and garage... you wouldn’t get that here. In the pictures, the heating looks old to me, as do the radiators, I would completely renew those. You can’t see the electrical system, etc. Unfortunately, the listing does not say when anything was done. The windows might be okay or they might need to be replaced... how old are they? And what kind are they? The roof and facade look good at first glance. What about the front door? Definitely get detailed information on that, otherwise it will be a calculation like "from 50,000 to 120,000, anything is possible." Keyword: expert!

I would roughly estimate, if nothing serious comes up... about 35,000 for a good heating system with new pipes and radiators (friends paid 24,000 for solar thermal, without new pipes and without radiators, but some of that can be reimbursed via KFW). Electrical work, if necessary... I would estimate about 20,000 if it can be a basic standard (large living area plus outbuildings, that can cost). Floors, ceilings, walls... 15,000. If windows and front door—without knowing how many windows there are, I would also budget quite a bit here. Good windows and doors cost money. About 15,000? New bathrooms: there are 3 bathrooms. Do they all need to be new? With a lot of own work and simple standard, quite feasible for about 24,000€. For that you still need plumbing, electrical, and tiling experts, and if there are several showers and bathtubs, you get to a certain price. Interior doors? Costs vary a lot. There are doors for 200 all in and ones for 1,000. Here you naturally have to count how many interior doors there actually are.

That adds up quite a bit, but after that the house is a large, modern house in obviously a good location with a very large garden. I don’t know why the house hasn’t sold so far and this price haggling etc. would also confuse me. Definitely have it looked at and assessed only with an expert. The photos can be deceiving. Therefore, my estimate could also be completely off up or down. We have an old building and renovated it quite cheaply, a lot of own work, little living space, simple standard. But as it usually is, when the time comes, suddenly you prefer floors for 40 per square meter, suddenly the substructure gets expensive, suddenly you fall in love with wallpaper for 30€ a roll, etc. You really have to keep a cool head.