New construction lighting planning and implementation

  • Erstellt am 2016-06-07 23:04:22

R.Hotzenplotz

2018-02-24 00:19:55
  • #1


Why everything? I was talking about three specific areas.

Otherwise, I could have just left the old lighting design as it is and only needed to remove a few spots.
 

ruppsn

2018-02-24 01:11:39
  • #2
Hi R.Hotzenplotz!
May I ask what your lighting planners are quoting? Just as a reference...
I don’t find the last plan too bad. I think you also have to consider what style you want yourself. Personally, I’m absolutely not a fan of ceiling spotlights, neither in the quantity planned by you nor generally, because I find it somewhat too mainstream and the cost for all the ceiling sockets in the thin concrete ceiling would hurt me. Our concrete plant charges about 70 EUR per socket, which is definitely not worth it to me; I wouldn’t necessarily need that much either. That’s quite a bit of general blah from me.

Regarding your questions and concerns. Despite my aversion to recessed spots, I find your planner’s approach good and understandable. The asymmetry is clearly visible and he follows it consistently. Therefore, I would definitely allow this asymmetry in the hallway. I find a consistent concept more sensible than breaking it up. Especially in the hallway, which is basically a connecting element between other rooms, I find that convincing. Also, personally, I see little point in lighting a hallway on the upper floor excessively bright. To me, it looks rather sterile, not cozy. Same thought applies to the WC. I must say, I find the arrangement completely sufficient as basic lighting. The porcelain is illuminated without dazzling the users. The other spotlight adds an accent and probably even gives the room more depth—especially because it is not evenly lit. Similar in the master bathroom. In both cases, I would definitely include a mirror light (please a high-quality one) to get good lighting when applying makeup or shaving. Backlighting with a different color temperature will help little there. For example, I would design the basic lighting in the bathroom more ambient and thus cozy to promote relaxation—complemented by functional light where needed, namely at the mirrors.

In the master bedroom as well as in the children’s rooms and living room, I find the asymmetrical double spots near the walls quite nice. Surely can create a nice atmosphere and bring depth into the rooms because of the light gaps. I think that’s a nice idea especially in the bedroom—and definitely in the living room. I’ve never understood why anyone needs a central light above the bed in the bedroom. Same goes for the living room. Here, an application scenario would be interesting. If you’re unsure, just have an empty socket installed where you’re uncertain and plaster it over. Then you’re safe. I do this, for example, in our living room. There I planned a warm white LED strip under the lowboard and two Occhio Sento E on one wall that also emit light across the ceiling. That’s more than enough for ambient lighting in the living room. The rest is accented by a tripod floor lamp next to the sofa and two strategically placed cubic shelf lights from Ikea; that means the entire living room currently just has the two Sento wall lights (for about 26 sqm). For safety, there’s still a flush-mounted box in the center of the room/by the sofa table—plastered over as a fallback.

Spotless illumination would be important to me in workspaces, for example, in the office or the utility room and laundry room. In living rooms, definitely a no-go for me because I want to live there and feel cozy—and I achieve that more with atmospheric, accentuated lighting rather than sterile office atmosphere.

I have some difficulties with the kitchen. Here I agree with kbt09. Between the island and the stove, the spots don’t really make sense. When you stand at the stove, the light is behind you, same when washing up. You have LED strips over the island (which is okay), but then think about when you would actually turn on the spots in the ceiling or for what purpose.

Since you are installing a KNX system, fortunately you don’t have to worry about how you switch what from where. Some advice might assume you’re wiring conventionally. Especially in the bedroom, you basically get switching from the bed as a gift. What else it should all be can also be comfortably reparameterized as needed—also the whole topic around night setback.

Basically, if you want/should/must watch the budget a bit, you can certainly reduce the number of spots significantly. For example, in the children’s rooms (as nice as I find the idea of spots), maybe also work with shelf or floor lamps to create ambience and atmospheric lighting. Your KNX bus helps you here again because you can create scenes with sockets and switch lights on and off selectively. This would generally also apply to the living room, but I would leave it as planned there. After all, that is the public area, rather than the private area.

Regarding the living room light: sure, matter of taste. My opinion: absolutely terrible. Those things look to me like "trying too hard" and in a single-family house completely over the top; I don’t think they fit the planned indirect lighting either. In a design-oriented hotel as an eye-catcher gladly, but in a single-family house?! But as I said, matter of taste. My Occhios (Sento, Piu, and Mito) definitely don’t please everyone either.

About DALI. I was long convinced I wanted DALI, but now I’ll do everything with KNX actuators. You have a lot of spots (LED I assume), maybe there could be a small price advantage. I think from about 20 LED lights you can consider going to DALI and expect slight price advantages. The question would be why your planner insists on DALI here. I decided against it because the channel price is not much cheaper. Also, you need a DALI gateway, which you have to fairly include in the channel price calculation. Then—and that was the main point—I’m not convinced that with DALI even when the light is off, power permanently flows. These are not like a switching actuator at 0% off, but at 0% they still draw power in the background. Even if it’s probably not much, I see no sense in that. What I would recommend: wire the luminaires consistently with 5x1.5 mm² conductors, then you’re safe for DALI and could retrofit it anytime.

Many greetings and continued good luck!
 

kbt09

2018-02-24 07:50:24
  • #3
Yes, sure that can be useful for that ... but the question is, when would one use these lighting scenarios? In your office, I see a workspace that needs to be sensibly lit, with some kind of similar lighting as I linked above. And, I see a sofa ... where one might sit and read ... so a case for a reading floor lamp or something similar, so that you can properly illuminate your reading material.

Sure, they are not disturbing, but when do you need them? All these prepared holes recessed into the ceiling also cost money and I just ask about the usefulness of a lighting scene. You don't want to turn your house into a photo studio where everything is always nicely lit, but in the bedroom generally you need reading light and intimate light.

Guest WC, hallway, no need for surgical lighting there either.

I’m curious to see how it continues.
 

R.Hotzenplotz

2018-02-24 07:52:11
  • #4


The first one charged €1000 net for the lighting concept, the detailed planning, coordination with the architect, and a site visit with the electrician. No credit if commissioned.

The second charges twice as much without a site visit. €1000 for the lighting concept and another €1000 for the detailed planning. However, he charges half if you commission him.

I had contact with other lighting planners. The tendency is rather around €2000 than the first price.



Here, €99 net is charged.




Unfortunately, he has no example pictures to get an idea of it. We only know it evenly lit and find that good in the functional rooms (for us these are hallway, bathrooms, kitchen). But I’m also happy to be convinced by someone else. In the living area, among other places, I can well imagine it and also trust it without an example picture. In the other areas I would like to see it. Also, the kitchen with the missing lights on the left side comes to mind again.




Does that also apply in connection with our anthracite-colored tiles downstairs on the ground floor? Or do you simply need more because they absorb a lot of light?




In the children's rooms? There are no double spots there, only a ceiling light each.




Okay, then we will remove the spots between the cabinets. Instead, one spot above the last base cabinet below the cooktop. I’m still not so happy with the strip over the peninsula. Does anyone have alternative suggestions to show?

Otherwise, I can only agree with everything you write. Thank you very much for your detailed feedback.
 

R.Hotzenplotz

2018-02-24 07:57:54
  • #5


The office is 20% workplace, 80% leisure time at the PC. I need cozy light there, where I can make it comfortable but also functional light to work efficiently. That is very important to me. I spend twice as much time in the office as in the living room. It is basically my main room in the house.



In the bedroom you probably don’t need a scene. But still, I think the concept is good. Upstairs you don’t need Halox cans that cost extra. There is a drywall ceiling. We now have a centered ceiling light in the bedroom. It is functional but not cozy.



Humans are creatures of habit. You are probably right and we just have to open ourselves to the new. That’s what we wanted as well. And I’m consciously seeking input here to question my own thoughts about the concept. The old lighting planner always painted us such a horror scenario because of the dark tiles, saying that there absolutely shouldn’t be one spot less, otherwise from a professional point of view he would have to reject all responsibility for the lighting result.

What do you think of such wall lights instead of recessed step lights in the stairwell on the ground floor / upper floor?

 

11ant

2018-02-24 14:08:22
  • #6
I wonder what they still mean by "commissioning" if concepts have already been created? Do they mean actually procuring and installing the stuff? From a lighting DESIGNER I expect that they design. And nothing else. After all, I don’t expect a structural engineer to pour the ceiling themselves either. Accordingly, for me a good lighting design is a standalone module that any electrician can work with afterwards. Here it seems to me more about lighting INSTALLERS who are exaggerating a somewhat more sophisticated luminaire distribution concept as a planning service. I only see pictures of mounting locations and luminaire designs here – but zero facts about how many lux / lumens / candelas are provided in which cubic meter of which room. For me, this is just electrical work with a touch of nouvelle cuisine.
 

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