Is Smarthome KNX automation possible based on the floor plan?

well that's the problem with KNX. you don't see it, it's just running in the background.

and yes, you can do many things that KNX does by default in a traditional way. BUT with traditional you sometimes need significantly more effort in cable laying and in terms of optics.

I like it minimalistic. I don't want to have 10 switches hanging everywhere. I have 4 blinds in the kitchen, 2 in the dining room, 6 in the living room, 3 in the bedroom, 1 bathroom, 2 in the study, 1 in the garage and 1 in the guest bathroom.

And yes, I also want to be able to control some or all of them individually. Try doing that traditionally.

I can already see the electrician calculating. 4 switches for the kitchen, 3 bedroom, 6 living room, etc.... And then maybe I get the idea and want to operate all the blinds in the kitchen at once and all in the living room and the bedroom anyway. Oh, and at the patio door to the terrace I’d like one too and at the patio door in the kitchen and in the bedroom (and yes I have 3 terraces, 1 south facing, 2 west facing).

And I still want to control the lights.... UIH UIH UIH that requires a lot of square meters of wall space for switches!!!!

NO NO NO I don’t want 3 times 5 switches in the living room.

With KNX it’s easy. And I don’t have switch orgies either. The largest thing installed are double boxes for switches. In the bedroom I treated myself to a Synohr.
I talk to my house when I’m in bed... 'James' takes care of the rest

I remain skeptical about using KNX. Many things that are understandable (like the last example from Tom1607) are nothing new and can also be easily realized differently without maintaining the corresponding infrastructure.

I don’t want to convince anyone here of anything. everyone has to decide for themselves.

I like it comfortable, flexible, and above all stylish, and having 10 switches on the wall to turn my lights on and off and operate my blinds is out of the question for me.

Especially if I want to do that from different places then it becomes a traditional struggl(e).

And one thing is important to me too. I can automate things anytime I want. And when I go on vacation my house just keeps doing what it normally does. The blinds go up in the morning and down in the evening. And additionally the radio sometimes turns up loud and the light switches on and off... All that WITHOUT any extra effort.

One thing I forgot. when I’m not at home and a motion or presence detector registers movement. My phone rings and I can look at my cameras with my phone and possibly inform the nice gentlemen in blue/green that someone is rummaging through my stuff...

I currently live in a rented house from the 70s. The house has roller shutters everywhere.
In the living room, I have three roller shutters side by side. Each has a switch, yes, but it "feels" like there is no battery because the switches are positioned at the window. So not arranged with the three light switches one above the other.
To increase comfort, there is a small controller from Gira above the three roller shutter switches. Times can be programmed on it at which the three roller shutters can be raised/lowered together. Or with a single button, all three at once.
Is that electrically complicated? The three switches are stacked anyway, above them a controller that combines the three switches again. Drama? I don't see any.
I also haven't understood yet how switches are saved. Do you basically control the roller shutters only in groups, so that switches are omitted? Or is it only about the format of the switches?

The pictures from mycraft are interesting. It looks like some cables are shorter. At least directly in the room. But there are three instead of one cable routing to the room. Hm. I would think I'd prefer 2m more cable in the room rather than x meters more to the control cabinet, wouldn't I?
I would be interested to know the price difference. So without any frills. Just the wiring type changed.

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Yes, exactly - why are you listing the professions now? It should be clear what I meant - you did the parameterization and probably the planning yourself - so you are also in a completely different cost bracket than someone who has everything done (and that is probably only good in the lucky case).

I also know many, but no one who had to remodel their electrical system. And why shouldn't the wiring allow for installing a new socket? What would KNX be better at there?

Nobody really uses this repeatedly mentioned flexibility... as if I wake up tomorrow and say "Wow, I'll make the socket in the back left of the living room switchable right away."

But well, we're going in circles. I find KNX exciting and there are many nice applications - but some arguments are simply contrived.

now it's not quite that far-fetched.

i have rearranged my aquarium several times. guess how the light turns on and off.

but yes, once you live in it, you don’t change everything every 2 weeks. but it still happens from time to time.

i recently replaced a defective switch at a friend's house who had built with KNX back in 1994, and took the opportunity to make a few 'adjustments' to the current living situation. the conservatory recently got new shading with a few additional blinds. i simply parameterized that.

the blinds were grouped together because they 'always moved the same way' and she no longer wanted to run through the rooms. back then they also insisted on 'i want everything separately'. the garage door and the courtyard gate were also adjusted to open together when the courtyard gate is opened. and the light in the archway turns on and stays on for 20 minutes.

these were all just minor parameter adjustments. the way she wanted it, based on the motto 'since you're already here'.

i also asked her why she hadn’t told me all this much earlier. it’s only a small thing. her answer: 'i didn’t know it was possible.' she still remembered that they spent a lot of money on it back then, but her husband had done everything and she never took care of it.

by the way, she has now caught the bug and started making a list of everything she wants done differently. 'next time you come, bring your laptop' was the statement.

you can see, even after more than 20 years, there is still room for optimization.

Sebastian is of course right on this point that planning and parameterization, if not done by oneself, always represents a significant cost factor in a KNX system. Then there may also be maintenance, if something does not work or needs to be changed. This is not the case with conventional electrical installations. This point is often forgotten in a comparison, and only the pure material price is compared.

Why are you listing the professions now? It should be clear what I meant – you did the parameterization and probably the planning yourself – so you are also in a completely different cost bracket than someone who has everything done (and that usually only works out well by chance).

I listed the professions because the argument about parameterization and planning is also negligible. For example, I can't do drywall or lay tiles.

Someone who can, will most likely do it themselves and thereby save thousands. The same goes for the outdoor areas... a landscape gardener only pays for the material costs and does the rest themselves. I, on the other hand, have to dig deep into my pockets.

Thus, the savings are relativized and so a landscape gardener can hire a system integrator... which was not necessary for my build.

You, for example, laid all the cables yourself and drilled the boxes, so you saved money compared to my build. I had boxes drilled and cables laid... not because I can't do it... no, simply because I didn't want to.

So in the end, theoretically, we spent the same amount of money.

Is it really that complicated electrically? The three switches are stacked anyway, above that a controller that groups the three switches again. Drama? I don't see any.

Well, now multiply that by 5... because houses today have about that many windows... here it gets complicated electrically... are you going to put 5 controllers somewhere? How do you connect the controllers with each other? (Let's leave wireless aside.) If you don't connect them, will you be running back and forth to the controllers whenever you want to change the time when the blinds go up/down?

What do you do if one partner works shifts and a fixed controller to go down at x time and up at y time is simply disadvantageous? Do you then just leave the bedroom blinds manual? But then you always have to raise and lower them yourself... and so on...

Also, I haven't understood how switches are saved. Do you basically control the blinds only in groups so that switches become unnecessary? Or is it just about the size of the switches?

No, you simply have more/the same number of buttons in less space; if you want, you can control the blinds individually or in groups, same with lights and other consumers.

So this:


is replaced by this for example:

I would think, better 2m more cable in the room instead of x meters more to the control cabinet, right?

Hmm, yes, that was the thinking in the past... but a cable to the room hits its capacity limit after a certain length... many are not aware of this... and if the light and all sockets are connected to it... then the more distant rooms are usually just within the norm... if you switch on a couple of consumers in that room and then the blinds go down too... it can become critical... not necessarily, but it can; you have to look at each case individually.

With star cabling, on the other hand, you have enough reserve. That's why nowadays even conventional cabling divides rooms into several circuits... so actually, no matter how you do it, you lay about the same amount of cable... but with star cabling you save the distribution boxes in the walls. Consequently, a price difference practically does not exist...

No one uses that repeatedly mentioned flexibility... as if I wake up tomorrow and say, "Wow, I'll make that socket in the living room back left switchable right away."

Actually, I have done exactly that several times... to increase comfort... and the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) rises daily. Appetite comes while eating, as is well known.

Sebastian is of course right that planning and parameterization, if not done yourself, always represent a major cost factor for a KNX system. Then there may also be maintenance if something doesn't work or needs changing. That does not exist with conventional electrical work. This point is often forgotten in comparisons and only the pure material price is compared.

I just described it... this differs case by case... of course, if I don't lift a finger on my build, then and only then is this a cost factor.

And yes, with conventional electricity it doesn't occur... but as Tom's example shows, you can live with KNX for 20 years without changing anything... and 20 years later... as it looks, quite a few changes have happened... now it only takes a few mouse clicks and everything is up to date again...

Conventionally, after 20 years it actually means opening up walls and rewiring...