Property development - basement yes or no?

The sentence "Changes to ..... are reserved" appears in every construction service description known to us and gives the home builder/house supplier enormous room to maneuver in their favor.

However, this reservation is mainly for technical reasons and is therefore regularly found even with reputable providers. I do not see it as a backdoor for tricksters – Fleischerhaus general contractors are rather isolated cases.

The difficulty is probably that there are no (?) providers who offer the sampling before signing the contract.

That is why I recommend actively creating your construction service description together with your own architect. I rather see the fact that this excludes large providers from the selection as an advantage.

Furthermore, you cannot rely on the fact that if you see something you like in a show house or a prospectus of the home builder/house supplier, it will actually be implemented.

For this, I recommend reading an article I have published elsewhere (When show houses "lie"). In short: a show house neither guaranteedly reflects the builder’s construction standard at the time of your visit, nor does it have to have been built by them at all; in addition, "it may contain special features."

Haha, basically approved ;-)
Then take that one, it doesn’t get greener!
(if he can’t design that well, the pale purple floor plans are back again).

"Upgradings" and "re-specifications" logically only exist where the general contractor regularly bases himself on his own scope of services. This means (independent of construction method) all the big providers are already out. But it makes sense to always have your own scope of services with the architect.

What do you mean by pale purple floor plans? Shouldn’t designing be the architect’s core competency?
To have a complete scope of services, you would have to engage the architect at least up to and including service phase 5, right? To avoid upgradings, you’d also have to specify exactly which sanitary fixtures, which model of air-water heat pump, etc. you want or don’t want, wouldn’t you?

Within the Steinaufsteinhaus scene that is indeed the best way, but with "prefab" house builders (regardless of wall material) it’s rather illusory; then the timber house only works with the independent carpenter (or the architect really has to know the system well).

I don’t understand that yet. Can it really be irrelevant for the architect’s design whether the house is later built as a timber frame or solid construction? The architect recommended to us also said he only builds solid.
What would be realistically the best way for you if you want to build with a prefab house provider? To have the house planned by the provider themselves?

In general, we are worried about paying the architect’s fees twice if, for example, we first hire an architect for service phases 1 - 4 or 5 and then go to prefab house providers with the result to get offers. Sure, they will hopefully deduct the architect’s fees from the offer, but whether they do this “correctly” is hard for us to assess. The freelance architect will probably also be significantly more expensive than the architect fees included by prefab house providers, right?

P.S.: I found the contact method :)

We at least already talked to providers who didn’t exclude that. One even gave us the complete upgrade catalog including prices in advance. Unfortunately, though, that really is the absolute exception.

Can it not be the same to the architect for the design of the house whether it is later built in timber frame construction or solid construction? ..., if we, for example, first hire an architect for service phases 1 - 4 or 5

and how is the architect supposed to calculate the statics, for example, without knowledge of the materials?

Energy consultants and architectural services are included as a matter of course with most large prefab house providers I know anyway.

Included architectural services do not necessarily mean that someone sits down and does "planning" architectural services with you, but simply obtains a building permit for your project... the draftsman so often praised by . Especially with prefab house companies, you often have this. He just does it and in the worst case does not help at all.
I can share some of our experiences, I am by no means an expert.

We have come across the following variants:
1) Partnership between a freelance architect and the company: The prefab house provider refers you to an architect who knows their construction method. You plan the house together up to performance phase 4, and then the company takes over; in both companies where we encountered this, the architect's fee was later charged - if you did not build with the company, a deduction was required: between 4k and 10k was what we came across.

2) Employed architect who makes preliminary planning with you – same deal as in 1), a bit cheaper.

3) Like in 1), but the architect only comes in after signing. This has the disadvantage that you have already signed for a house. If you already have your "dream floor plan," that is usually not an issue; if you still need help, it can be difficult. By the way, at Schwörerhaus, this is a freelance architect who is referred, but I have not heard much good in the social network groups there.

4) Like in 2), but the architect is actually just a draftsman and is supposed to do the building application.

I see the added value of an architect mainly in cost-effective planning. He might reduce your house by 20m² and thus you save 20*2500 € = 50,000 € – whether the planning is now "nice" is something everyone has to decide for themselves. Some people have very clear things on their no-go list (we, for example, under no circumstances want the staircase at the entrance), which for others is not a problem.

If you have basically found a floor plan for yourself (e.g., from a company catalog) and only want to make a few minor changes, it can be worthwhile to find an architect who helps optimize the floor plan.
We experienced last year that conceptual work is quite difficult to get if you only want that. We had good and bad experiences with "floor plan optimization."

and how is the architect supposed to calculate the statics without knowledge of the materials, for example?

Does he have to be able to do that? That happens anyway in the specialist department of the house building company. They say: beam here and there, or here another post.

What do you mean by pale lilac floor plans? Shouldn't designing be the architect's core competence?

Pale lilac floor plans were temporarily unavailable in this forum ;-) and now they are available again. So one is no longer left naked if the architect’s creativity doesn’t shine bright enough. Where an architect sees his core competence can often (but not always) be read off his glasses and his car, which is nicely put "not standardized."

To have a complete building performance specification, you would have to hire the architect at least up to and including service phase 5, right? To avoid upgrades, you would also have to specify exactly which sanitary fixtures, which model of air-to-water heat pump, etc. you want or don’t want?

I see the creation of the bill of quantities rather in service phase 6. There are no upgrades with your own building specifications because you write in from the start what silk content the marble should have :)

I still don’t understand that. Can it not be the same to the architect for the design of the house whether it will be later built in timber frame construction or solid construction? The architect recommended to us also said directly that he only builds solid. What would be the realistically best way for you if you want to build with a prefab house supplier? To have the house planned by the supplier themselves?

The construction method is still open only at the beginning; by the end of the preliminary design phase you have to have decided because the design then already becomes specific. Architects for "stone on stone" are easiest to find because they are most widespread – the type of stone has no influence on the planning grid and the like, and the exterior walls are interlocked. With the "prefab" house, every manufacturer has their usual truss-axis dimension, their wall construction recipe, and their right-of-way rule at the exterior wall corners. The architect must already be familiar with the manufacturer’s building system and cannot easily transfer it to that of a competitor. Detailed knowledge helpful for this is not widely shared by the manufacturers. This ultimately comes down – leaving aside the form of the contractual relationship between manufacturer and architect – to an "in-house planner." So basically to what would be the draftsman for the general contractor in solid construction – only with a shorter fuse to the CNC milling machine.

In general, we are worried that we will pay the architect fees twice if we, for example, first hire an architect for service phases 1 - 4 or 5 and then go to prefab house suppliers with the result to get offers. Of course, they will hopefully exclude the architect’s costs from the offer then, but whether they do that "correctly" is hard to judge. The independent architect will probably also be significantly more expensive than the architect costs included in prefab house suppliers, right?

I already answered that today in another thread:

Sort of yes and no, with your own architect it is usually minimally cheaper or equally expensive so that he can effectively be seen as cost-neutral. But there is indeed a "trend" towards the safer way of building more expensively with your own architect – and that is so simple that unfortunately one must say, "Debededehakape is a bestseller": namely by only hiring your own architect up to the approval stamp (so already leaving out the important service phase 5 which defends against drywall bumps) and then of course (because without service phase 5 there is no service phase 6, etc.) bumble around instead of a professional tender with homemade request for offers. Of course, you then pay more just for that reason alone because in this way you collect shiploads of hourly rates. But that is what makes the apprentice sorcerer.

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If you have basically found a floor plan for yourself (e.g. from a company catalog) and only want to make a few minor changes, it can be worthwhile to look for an architect who helps you optimize the floor plan. We had the experience last year that conceptual work is pretty hard to get if you only want that. We had good and bad experiences with "floor plan optimizing."

You are welcome to report more about these experiences :)

Pale lilac floor plans were temporarily unavailable in this forum ;-) and now they are available again. In this respect, you are no longer standing naked if the architect’s creativity isn’t bright enough. Where an architect sees his core competence can often (but not always) be read from his glasses and his car, which is nicely put "not standardized".

Okay, the search taught me something - now I understand your hint :).

I rather see the creation of the bill of quantities in service phase 6. There are no additions in own construction service descriptions anyway, because you write in from the start what silk content the marble should have :)

And if you go up to service phase 6 anyway, then anything else than commissioning also service phase 7 + service phase 8 would be quite nonsense, right? But if we actually go the whole way with the architect, then we have the risk of exploding prices again. Or how do you see it? Would you counteract that by awarding to a general contractor in service phase 7 and then negotiating the price guarantee with him from that point on? What surprises me is that at our initial meeting with the mentioned architect the tone was that we can build a house with about 140 m² for 600,000 euros (without basement). In the preliminary talks with the prefab house suppliers it was said each time that without basement 170 - 180 m² is also possible. One even said, for example, whether the house is 10 m² bigger or smaller doesn’t make much difference (about 16,000 euros). And if I calculate very simply with 170 m² at 3,000 euros, I get 510,000 euros – so very good within our budget. Alternatively 135 m² * 3,000 euros would be 405,000 euros plus basement for 120,000 euros would then be 525,000 euros. Incidental construction costs are, in my opinion, already included in the square meter price. Where is my thinking error?

The construction method is only open at the beginning; at the end of the preliminary design phase you must have decided, because it already becomes specific in the design. Architects for "stone on stone" are easiest to find because they are most widespread – the type of stone has no influence on the planning grid or the like, and the exterior walls are interlocked. For the "prefab" house, every manufacturer has its usual frame axis dimension, its wall construction recipe, and its right-of-way rule at the exterior wall corners. The architect must therefore be familiar with the manufacturer's construction system and cannot easily transfer it to that of a competitor. Detailed knowledge, which manufacturers do not like to spread widely, is also helpful. This ultimately results – excluding the form of the contractual relationship between manufacturer and architect – in an "in-house planner". So basically what would be the draftsman at the stone general contractor – only with a shorter fuse to the CNC milling machine.

Okay, understood. That meeting a good, trained architect at a prefab house provider is rather unlikely? ;) That in turn means the only thing I can do with prefab house providers is to specify the desired floor plan in advance, at least to be able to compare with some degree of constancy the layout of the house.

I already answered that today in another thread:

Understood – although you are assuming solid construction again, right? Our idea was to commission service phases 1-4 and then go to the prefab house providers with the result. Or did you mean "botching around with self-made request for proposals"? ;)