How is a 400k loan financible without equity? Net equity at €4,500

Is that so? I think I belong to the "man" generation, my social circle is about the same age as me, plus or minus six years. Personally, I don’t feel that people primarily want to indulge themselves (through whatever kind of luxury) – on the contrary, the vast majority are married or already in a long-term relationship, already have or plan to have children in the foreseeable future, prefer to meet on the terrace for a barbecue rather than party in the city, go on vacation at most twice a year (yes, go! Flying is hardly wanted anymore for other reasons) and are overall very down to earth. The vast majority want or already have property (smaller condominiums) and are totally willing to make compromises for it. Ten years ago, today’s 25-35 generation would have been called narrow-minded.

It’s a pity that precisely these people, despite good earnings (although opinions vary as to how much you have to earn to earn "well") and a secure background, no longer have the opportunity to build or buy – when the local model calls for square meter prices of 360 euros, frugality no longer helps. This way, the smaller towns here are gradually dying out, clubs are closing, kindergartens and schools shut down, and you have to get in the car just to reach a baker.

There are also plenty of very young people who want to. Who could. There just isn’t any opportunity within a 50km radius. That’s really the stupid development for me.

It’s like with almost everything: supply and demand determine the price. If you can’t afford a plot of land within a 50 km radius, you have to consider what is more important to you:
A) Rental apartment/condominium because you want to stay close to family/friends
B) Search for an owner-occupied house further away and accept longer distances to family/friends.

Wasn't it always like that? I think it used to be quite normal.

No, always pay close attention to the numbers. Interhyp has just published interesting figures on the demographics of mortgage borrowers. Currently: first-time borrowers, 39 years old, household net income 4,900 euros (median). Follow-up borrowers - 48 years old, household net income 4,700 euros.

That means, 10 years ago, when most first-time mortgages for today's follow-ups were taken out, people with lower incomes were able to build or buy. The 5% higher required income is also only part of the truth - in the 10 years between the two groups there are pay grade advancements, grown children and higher part-time factors or return to full-time work. In other words, to achieve comparability, the 4,900 would have to be adjusted upwards even further.

Wasn't it always like that? I think it used to be quite normal. When my parents-in-law built at the end of the '60s, it was clear that saving was necessary. It was normal to put every penny into a building society savings plan in advance. It was normal to build only what was affordable when building a house – for my parents-in-law, back then, it was even the central heating that was on the chopping block and could only be realized through a financial injection from the parents. The outdoor area was far from finished when they moved in. In the living room stood an old couch from relatives, the wall unit came only years later. The first years after building the house, there were no vacations, but hiking instead – every penny was put towards paying off the loan. That was quite normal back then. Debt was simply unpleasant.

Nowadays, it's just different. For many, debt is something completely normal – TV and furniture on credit, even clothes and vacations paid in installments. When building a house, people prefer to splurge, those extra tens of thousands don’t matter anymore. Foreign money is spent with open hands.

For many, long-distance travel has simply become standard. Acquaintances have newly built, but in the end, there was no money left for the terrace, carport, and fence due to upgrades. Last year, however, they still went to New York for two weeks, you have to treat yourself – the remaining 50 weeks of the year they then complained again about the missing terrace. Everyone as they like it

I agree with you; cheers to our parents’ generation! My parents built a semi-detached house in 1960 with the “Neue Heimat” and then lived with relatives on 90 sqm and 3 floors; that was luxury made possible only by sharing. On top of that came absolutely necessary self-restraint, i.e., never going to a restaurant, growing/harvesting everything themselves (forced organic), one old bike for all, no TV, central heating too expensive, washtub in the cellar (also for slaughtering pigs), travel was unknown anyway, etc. This good old but truthful tale often only induces yawns in young people. Still, I’m glad I experienced this simplicity without ever feeling deprived. Not that I want it back, but I often read that today it’s supposedly especially difficult to build a house. It isn’t! It is solely due to drastically increased expectations for one’s own lifestyle (which I of course have, too). Terms like “return to full-time” (part-time?? what’s that?), home office, dream kitchen, own children’s bathroom, playroom, smart home, etc. I don’t want to condemn that by any means, because I also love innovation, beautiful things, and enjoyment, but I also still know how it was back then and therefore have the utmost respect for how my parents’ generation built their simple little house with the goal of security for the family. I think one should admit that today people like luxury or a high standard of living, which I absolutely grant to everyone and myself just as well. But when I read that some here compare building then with building today, I realise that they can only know past life from quirky books and find it nothing but whining. I am building again for the umpteenth time but I know that I am operating in the luxury segment like everyone else here; just the things we sometimes think about here... Today we live dreams in kitchen, bathroom, and children’s rooms as well as the most extravagant materials. Whoever does not consider this the utmost luxury (and that’s a good thing) and happiness in their life probably can no longer be helped. We should be aware that this is mostly due to the luck of being born later, since a previous generation would never have had the chance to achieve such things. Not due to lack of intelligence but because one had to become a craftsman or was not allowed to attend grammar school and had to give half of one’s meager apprentice salary as board money at home. Back then, one was angry about that, today I understand it and find it absolutely right and responsible in retrospect. Luckily we live today, but I just don’t want to read the fairy tale that things used to be easier or simpler... and that while sitting on a natural stone terrace on lounge furniture with a wind sensor for the remote-controlled awning and a glass of prosecco in hand...

Is that so?
I think I belong to the generation "man," my environment is about my age, plus or minus six years. Personally, I don’t feel that people primarily want to live it up (through whatever kind of luxury) – on the contrary, the vast majority are married or already in a long-term relationship, already have or plan to have children in the foreseeable future, prefer to meet on the terrace for a barbecue rather than partying in the city, go on vacation at most twice a year (yes, go! Flying is hardly done anymore for other reasons), and are generally very down-to-earth. The vast majority want or already have property (smaller condominiums) and are totally willing to make compromises for it. Ten years ago, the current generation of 25-35 would have been called petty bourgeois.

It’s a shame that especially these people, despite good earnings (though opinions differ on how much one has to earn to have "good" income) and a secure background, no longer get the chance to build or buy – when prices of 360 euros per square meter are called for in the local model, even frugality no longer helps. This is how the smaller towns here gradually die out, clubs close, kindergartens and schools shut down, and you have to take the car just to get to a baker.

There are plenty of very young people who want to. Who could as well. Unfortunately, there is simply no opportunity within a 50 km radius. For me, that is the really stupid development.

I think it’s nice when you write about barbecuing with friends and other such things, and no one should attack you for your lifestyle or call you petty bourgeois (what exactly is that anyway?).
I think it’s about the standard by which one defines luxury, bourgeoisness, down-to-earthness, and such.
Is it down-to-earth to go on vacation twice a year or fly, or not? Is it appropriate to their life if the vast majority already own property or will soon want/have it? Can it be expected that one is allowed to build where one would like?
Please don’t misunderstand; we wish for this and it’s nice if it’s possible. But there never was an expectation or entitlement to it, as far as I can remember.
That’s why most small towns don’t die out, because I could name you a bunch of places where you can get really nice plots of land for very little money. But modern life just doesn’t take place there.
I don’t believe clubs close because of the plot prices; that probably has more to do with our completely changed leisure behavior in the meantime, combined with an oversupply or changed interests. Who wants to be in a skittles club or rabbit breeders’ club nowadays?
I find today’s life nice and like the many opportunities; it just has different challenges.
Maybe the development – in the long term – isn’t so stupid after all, namely when more people are forced to move to the countryside and perhaps don’t take certain job opportunities and thus don’t make a career (as we say today) but simply go to work and treat themselves to a nicer home and a more uneventful life in the countryside.
It has always been the case that not everyone could build; either they had enough money or had to make a lot of sacrifices. One of the two was always involved.

I think it’s nice when you write about barbecuing with friends and other things, and no one should attack you because of your lifestyle or call you stuffy (what exactly does that even mean?). I think it’s about the standard by which one measures luxury, stuffiness, down-to-earthness, and the like. Is it down-to-earth to go on vacation twice a year or not, is it appropriate for their life if the vast majority already own property or want to own it soon, can it be expected that one may build where one wants? Please don’t misunderstand; we wish for that and it’s nice if it is possible too. But there was never an expectation or entitlement to that, as far as I can remember. That’s why most small towns don’t die out, because I could name you plenty of places where you can get really beautiful plots of land for very little money. But modern life simply doesn’t take place there. I don’t believe that clubs close because of the land prices; that is probably more due to our drastically changed leisure behavior meanwhile combined with oversupply or changed interests. Who wants to join a skittles club or a rabbit breeders’ club nowadays? I find today’s life nice and like the diverse possibilities, it just has different challenges. Maybe the development – in the long term – is not so stupid at all, namely when more people are forced to move to the countryside and maybe do not take some professional opportunities and don’t make a career (that’s what it’s called nowadays) but simply go to their work and allow themselves a nicer home and a quieter life in the countryside. It has always been the case that not everyone could build; either they had enough money or a lot of sacrifice. One of the two was probably always involved.

I do not feel attacked at all either, I just described that my feeling regarding the younger generation is completely different than what is partly described here. It may well be that this is a regional problem here, but I’m talking about the countryside and not the city. I know the situation quite well both around Munich and around Ulm. Here, if there are any at all, there are only plots that are not affordable for the average or slightly above-average earner (of course precisely because the high earners from the cities themselves focus more on the countryside and drive up the prices there, they really have no other choice). Commuting is standard here, no one expects to live close to work anymore anyway. Of course, that’s why clubs die out – who’s supposed to train the D-youth and which children are supposed to make it up? Here in the region, playing communities have to be formed regularly from several clubs because simply the children are lacking. And that’s football, not small animal breeding! The play streets that were built twenty years ago are now inhabited by older couples whose children have long since moved out. But at 50-something you certainly don’t move out yet. You worked hard for the house yourself. But the fact is: the children with their own young families mostly have to move far away if they want to realize their own dream of a house.

But the fact is: Children with their own young families mostly have to move far away if they want to realize their own dream of owning a house.

That is true and that is exactly the life decision that everyone finds difficult. As someone from the "children out of the house" generation, I know this and experience that children nowadays usually move far away for professional reasons in order to pursue their career path. On the one hand, that is great and much better than before, but "in my time" people looked for work nearby and became craftsmen, employees, etc., but always lived close to the family. So it is always both a curse and a blessing at the same time, although I am glad about the newly gained opportunities. But just as much, I also see, like you, the "dying" of the classic forms of life and social bonds due to this development. I had to fight, like many others, against resistance to join the club in the D-youth (how crazy was that?). Our coach (the one who then shouted at us back then telling us which direction to run) was a postman and had only a moped, and we took the train to the game. The good thing about it was that we didn’t even know that it could be any different. I can think about it as often as I want but I never come to the conclusion about what was better.