Floor plan new two-story single-family house 200 m²

I will stand in the driveway again tomorrow with the folding rule and simulate it.

Best with the car, in the dark, in the rain, even better with partially frozen windows and simultaneous kids’ birthday party visit and emergency call because of forgotten pizza. It never happens calmly and at the desk, reality is often banal but also cruel.
Of course, everything somehow always fits, but where people (sometimes dwarfs, too) run out the door, no car ever passes by, and definitely not in reverse.

That would be an argument for a pedestal, but on the other hand, that would block the sliding path for the bikes in the current or a similar layout and also significantly complicate a barrier-free entrance. We don’t necessarily need that, but in case of doubt, it’s probably more valuable to me than countering a bad feeling that I don’t even have.

It’s not about your/my bad feeling, but about objectively justifiable, serious hazards that one shouldn’t add to oneself.

Today I went up and down a staircase with a 90° winding several times, and I find it absolutely terrible every time. And it’s not just this one staircase, I’ve had that in other houses, too.

Reminds me of Gerhard Polt and his staircase scene with Hanna Schygulla. Do you also get goosebumps and hot flashes when you use angled staircases?
“Absolutely terrible” the walking experience at a staircase bend??? I believe that’s where even my supposedly broad imagination horizon regarding different people reaches its limits. I think you set yourself—and thus the house—limit after limit, which will show in the result.
But it’s an exciting thread; so much praise must be given.

We’re not that absolute either. I got carried away and spoke polemically. Every wish is only “relatively” important. But that’s not why I delete them from the list; I just adjust the weightings and look at the overall result.

That’s more like it, I just took what was written seriously.

The difficulty, of course, is to get out of a local optimum again.

Sorry, your “local optimum” doesn’t make sense to me; can that be said in everyday street jargon?

I would really appreciate advice from someone experienced like you: what would be a better attitude on the subject? Serious question. I am as you accurately describe me because I can live very well with compromises this way and especially don’t later get annoyed about a “what if.” I am sure that my family and I would have been happy even in the house of the first draft without racking our brains daily over missed opportunities. Of course, that doesn’t mean I don’t want to get the best out of it now.

Experience and age alone do not necessarily make someone wiser. But I do read how you like to dismiss some hints flippantly, which you are allowed to do and is also nicely written. When buying a pink 5-series BMW, one can smile, when planning a house carelessly for 600,000.-, less so.
Example: My hint about the hazard of the driveway. Please refute the hazard I named in a factually comprehensible way (in terms of your own building project).
Maybe I understand your manner better than you think and am therefore on guard (against myself). We also mostly planned our house ourselves because the general contractor was a failure in this regard or implemented only what we specified within the possibilities. We have about 100 hand-drawn floor plans here, and looking at these chronologically is (today) a pleasure. We are really glad that we moved open to results here in the forum and seriously considered every tip, even if it seemed strange to us at first. What do you lose by doing that?
Of course, we could now also live with many compromises, but it’s fun to have the many thoughtful details.
Even though it ultimately became our floor plan, it was highly influenced by participation here.

I am so relaxed about it because the fixtures in the offer already fit. We deliberately budget only 20,000 EUR for the finishing selections. Floors, walls, technology are already quite exactly as we want them there.

I like the word “quite”... let’s see, maybe you will be THE prizewinner who manages that within the framework.

Besides, 5 sqm of unnecessary hallway really isn’t a cost driver. There’s nothing expensive in there.

Wonderful.......
But: 5 sqm in the ground floor and upstairs, so 10 sqm. Wall, plaster, electricity, tiles, roof, heating, and much more. Assuming 3k/sqm you could instead build an air conditioner, a shower paradise, a nicer staircase, and a terrace roof or the necessary space for your conference table in the dining room.

Of course I’m saying that now. But I’ll keep you updated after the finishing selection.

Definitely... it’s fun when you get to just read and not have to pay.

We both grew up in households where, for over 20, respectively 30 years, a second shower in the house was not used. We have decided that we don’t need that.

In the past, we also washed our laundry in the river. Listen, such remarks are only acceptable from us old guys when we tell war stories again. The stay times in bathrooms as well as the shower habits of today’s 16-year-olds (now even boys shower more than once a month plus manicure) have changed and may still change further. Looking at your 2x5 sqm hallway play, I would find half a square meter more for a shower on the ground floor more sensibly used with a view to the next 10-20 years. Eventually the daughter’s 12th boyfriend wants to quickly wash off nervous sweat before riding home at 4 a.m. on his moped (or probably already flying taxi). Should he then use your perfume and your toothbrush that wasn’t put away? No, it was upstairs?

Sorry, your "local optimum" doesn’t make sense to me; can you say that in everyday street language?

By that I mean a state from which you can no longer get out through patching because no small change leads to a better design. These are cases where a restart might make sense (depending on how much is still to be gained).

We have about 100 hand-drawn floor plans here, and today it’s a pleasure to look at them chronologically. We are really relieved that we moved here in the forum with an open mind and seriously considered every tip, even if it seemed so odd to us at first. What do you lose by that?

That would actually be too much effort for me/us after all. At some point, the opportunity costs outweigh the gains of even better planning. In other words, if the house is already good, I can invest my time better. "Perfect" is not my goal at all.

Example: My hint about the danger of the driveway. Please refute (in terms of your own building project) the danger I named in a factual and comprehensible way.

Point 1: I walked through a small new development two weeks ago. Every second house there had the entrance in the carport. So the argument is "it can’t be that bad if so many do it."

Point 2: I am certainly aware of the dangers for children in road traffic, but the probability that a child will run in front of or behind a moving car is always there, even in the carport. I don’t see why that should be a particularly special problem at the front door. Admittedly, my child doesn’t run around yet, so I’ve always been more of an external observer there.

But: 5 sqm on the ground floor and on the upper floor, so 10 sqm. Wall, plaster, electricity, tiles, roof, heating, and much more. Assuming 3k/sqm, you could get an air conditioning system, a shower paradise, a nicer staircase, and a terrace roof, or the necessary space for your conference table in the dining room.

I partly disagree with that. The 3k/sqm are averaged over everything, including rooms and fittings that are significantly more expensive than a piece of hallway. If I build the house 0.4 m less deep to save 5 sqm but nothing else drops, I certainly won’t be 15,000 EUR cheaper. More like 5,000 EUR, and I really wonder whether the other compromises are worth it to me.

In the past, we also washed our laundry in the river. Listen, such sayings are only justified for us old goats when we tell war stories again. The duration of stays in bathrooms and the showering habits of today’s 16-year-olds (now even boys shower more than once a month along with manicures) have changed and maybe will change even more.

Counterargument: Precisely because that wasn’t so long ago for me, I don’t have to construct scenarios to justify the necessity. I just remember how it was at that age. No teenager showers down in the small bathroom if the bathroom upstairs is bigger and cosier. So I would be the one who has to resort to the makeshift solution in 15 years, not my son. He will be directly blocked by only having one (and a nice) shower.

No teenager showers downstairs in the small bathroom when the bathroom upstairs is bigger and more comfortable. So I would be the one who has to resort to the makeshift solution in 15 years, not my son.

I’m just going to chime in as a mother of a toddler and a teenager. So a family of four. I never wanted to believe it either—but our wake-up times have changed too and every morning we block each other in the bathroom—and in the afternoons and evenings... A shower on the ground floor also brings advantages with a toddler or a pet. Just imagine the 3-year-old coming home covered in mud from the construction site next door. In winter! You can’t just hose them off outside with the garden hose. You have planned a guest room too, right? At this size and price range, I wouldn’t skimp on a second shower.

Point 1: I walked through a small new development two weeks ago. Every second house had the entrance located in the carport. So the argument is "it can't be that bad if so many people do it."

I rarely see that here and almost never that cramped; please post some pictures of "every second house," honestly, I don't really believe that about five out of ten houses have such a, in my opinion, cramped and tricky entrance situation as in your plan; I would also like a source for that. Just because many do it would not necessarily be my decision parameter for my own life. Personally, I would feel uneasy about it, and I want to tell you that clearly with reasoning from my side; what you ultimately do really doesn't matter to me.

"Perfect" is not my goal at all.

Then just let the general contractor plan and use the saved time otherwise. I rather have the feeling that you want it particularly perfect—perfect in your self-made, very own sense. That's allowed, of course, but people from outside naturally point out inconsistencies to you. I often see horrible results in residential areas and inside houses for me personally and recognize that it is done that way because everyone does it like that. Almost anything can be justified that way in the end, but to me, it also looks like that. However, if everyone has it like that, it also has the advantage that you immediately find your way around in and in front of the other house since everyone has approximately the same.

I don't see why the front door is such a particularly problematic issue.

That can be explained purely logically because the front door is the central point where people—residents and visitors alike—always have to move back and forth. You also tend to put a pot of hot water at the back end of the worktop and not right next to the children's play table. But I think I've said everything on that from my side; it should be a hint, otherwise everyone is responsible for their stuff and children, too. And...99% of the time, such a thing will never happen.

That would actually be too much effort for me/us. Eventually, the opportunity costs outweigh the gain with even better planning. In other words, if the house is already good, I can invest my time better.

Here again, people differ. We really enjoy looking for details and solutions again and again and then delight in the "perfection" we have found; we rather perceive it as a hobby.

I partly disagree. The 3k/sqm is averaged over everything, including rooms and fittings that are significantly more expensive than a piece of hallway. If I build the house 0.4 m less deep to save 5 sqm but nothing else is cut out, I surely won't be 15,000 EUR cheaper. Rather 5,000 EUR, and then I really ask myself whether the other compromises are worth it to me.

Then build it that way if that's how it is for you. I only see disadvantages in it, even if it were only 5,000 EUR. I don't like walking into a wall right after the door, then around the open door (only a narrow passage remains with the door open), then having to turn the next corner only to end up in front of an inward-opening door that I wouldn't need because it is always open anyway. That too can be answered with "I don't need perfection," or "it only costs x-thousand euros." I have nothing to oppose such an "argument." There is also a pleasant perfection (a working machine or remote control...) and a pathological one. I like working remote controls and am annoyed by non-working or unnecessarily difficult functional things. I don't believe your 5,000 EUR calculation, and even if it were correct, I wouldn't spend even 100 EUR on something I don't need or that doesn't bring me a noticeable added value. For that, I would rather buy the fancy door instead of skimping there again. I essentially try to spend as little money as possible on less important things in life and be able to afford the "best" at the important spots for me. This might not hit the mainstream, though, so your reference to general behavior as a guideline doesn't help me in my life.

Counterargument: Precisely because it hasn't been that long for me, I don't have to construct scenarios to justify the necessity. I simply still know how it was at that age. No teenager showers downstairs in the small bathroom if the bathroom upstairs is bigger and cozier. So I would be the one who would have to resort to the makeshift solution in 15 years, not my son. He gets a block right away by having only one (but a nice) shower.

Then that is clear for you and requires no further hints. You should not expect me to construct something pointless either; I just wanted to pass on the thought process that formed for me. Everyone is different—fortunately! As I said, I enjoy reading along—let's see what else will come of it.

I find the accusation that someone only wants to collect "praise" here unjustified.

Where is that written? Did I miss something? I have to admit, the last 2-3 pages are a bit slow for a discussion.

I don’t quite believe that about five out of ten houses have such a, in my opinion, complicated entrance situation as in your plan; I would like to have a source for that.

Well, we also have such situations in a row. That may also be due to a poor development plan, i.e. the requirement to place parking spaces/garages/carports next to the house, or the generational period.
But one should also see the compromise behind it. Or how people live there. Older plots/houses were built only with or for one family car. And that often did not change over the next 2-3 generations. However, the plots were larger, so new residents nowadays had to look for alternatives with parking spaces on the property or find alternatives on the large residential street. That is no longer correct nowadays and is prohibited since the plots have to provide 2 parking spaces per dwelling unit and the street no longer provides parking spaces for residents.
If you only have 400 sqm of land, you just save space with the yard. However, everyone who reads a lot here knows that I personally rate the entrance situation higher than one more meter of garden. Because one is what "must" be, the other is what "can" be. The yard must function, the garden can.

I don’t see why the front door is such a particularly special problem.

It is the primary rescue route. Period. It must work, not only for an adult resident but also for the mailman, the children, the parcel delivery person, the furniture delivery, the horde of children who come to visit, or also the family visitors.
Not to forget, see primary rescue route, the doctor, ambulance, or stretcher carriers.
If then the better half decorates the entrance attractively to a nicer "welcome" and wants to come in with groceries or the child’s go-kart in hand and does not know how because it is just uncomfortably tight there, then false priorities have been set.

Every second house had the entrance in the carport. So the argument is "it can’t be that bad if so many do it that way."

One can look, but one can also ask or question. However, there are people who would never admit their mistakes. Just as there are people who have forgotten the legitimate reason or priority why it has become the way it is.

So I WOULD be the one who has to resort to the makeshift solution in 15 years, not my son.

That shows upbringing... hehe

Has to resort to the makeshift solution, not my son. He’s immediately blocked by the fact that there is only one (but a nice) shower.

I agree with you that many install these makeshift solutions in their house. The tiny 3.5 sqm shower bathroom, which is then justified with "for later, when we can’t go upstairs anymore," I also smile at. A handwash basin is even planned where you can’t even wash your hands properly, let alone brush your teeth, it is so tiny, but it fits a shower. That really does not have to be. Either you plan a practical guest toilet or give the family, possibly also with a dog one day, the possibility to clean themselves quickly and practically, where it makes sense.
By the way: with 4 people, possibly with guests, I would plan two washbasins in the family bathroom.

I like functioning remote controls and am annoyed by things that don’t work or work unnecessarily complicated.

Very current, warning: off topic: our neighbor couldn’t get along with hers and asked us during a visit to have a look. In the end, it was a new modern one where you only turn it around. Unfortunately, you can’t see what or where to turn. So she held the control upside down. I advised her today to mark the direction with nail polish.

No matter how you turn the arguments for yourself: with a 200 sqm not small house, one would think that one or the other thing should work smoothly and better than in a 130 sqm house. You’d think those 30-50 sqm are just there to make the house more complicated.

And here a kindly meant – homely – note: I am also active in other groups/forums. And in one group not a day goes by without photos of real hallways with open shoe racks and coat racks being shown, asking for improvements because this obvious disorder is very disturbing, especially when it is the first thing you see in your home. The first thing that then goes are the open shoe racks. Second to go are open coat hooks that you can see from the dining table.

Reminds me of Gerhard Polt and his stair scene with Hanna Schygulla. Do you also get goosebumps and hot flashes when you use angled stairs?

"Yes, the scene was then not shown for technical reasons" ... "my God, [she says], this escalator". I think escalators couldn't even be angled.