Cost for house, external dimensions approximately 7x8 m, 2 full floors

Without a site plan, we can't proceed here....

I would definitely be concerned about the architect's fee. Have you ever asked him about a flat fee? I would never have hired an architect for 50k.

Hello everyone,

so, since we received the architect's offer a few days ago and when I read your answers and questions, we are really doubting. I have to say that we have zero construction experience and topics like HOAI were completely new to us until a week ago...

Site plan / house size

[*]The house is actually a neglected 80-year-old semi-detached house
[*]According to the building authority, we are not allowed to build forward or backward (forward because of symmetry, backward because of the actual building boundary of the street); so only one side remains
[*]To comply with the side clearance areas, we are only allowed to build about 1.40m. Therefore, the house is very limited in its size
[*]Since an extension is not really sensible, the house only has a foundation made of "sludge concrete" and I cannot stand upright in the low cellar, the decision to demolish was made.
[*]Because someone asked: No, that was not clear to us. We had hoped to be able to build to the rear. But we have not regretted the purchase decision.

Cost issue

[*]We have been planning with the architect since autumn, have also gone through several rounds regarding the floor plan, but the house dimensions have been fixed from the start.
[*]Only our information at the beginning that we still have a budget of about 300,000 for the semi-detached house (including fees) was commented with "should be just enough."
[*]Despite repeated inquiries, we never received a cost estimate; the reasoning was always that exact measurements are needed because of wall length, tiles, pipe lengths, etc.
[*]Therefore, we still have NO contract with the architect. We have repeatedly urged this, but he always wanted to wait for the first cost estimate because his fee depends on the estimate...

Fee offer

[*]Suddenly, without any gain in knowledge for the architect having taken place, we were sent the fee offer
[*]The offer we have now received has no breakdown, zero details and only the indication "costs according to cost estimate" and then the sum of 325,000;
[*]Based on this, a fee of 53,000 is calculated; but we would never hire an architect for 50,000
[*]As I have now learned, the basis for the offer calculation only includes items 300 and 400; whether that is the case for us as well? No idea. The 325,000 could therefore be massively too low
[*]If I understood correctly, the basis for the calculation is net. Is that the case for us as well? No idea? If so, the gross amount alone would already approach 400,000

We now find the approach borderline and almost unprofessional. Especially since I have meanwhile heard from acquaintances who are building in parallel that they already received a detailed cost estimate according to DIN 276 at one of the first appointments with their architect.

What do you think about this? Change architects?

Uff... a lot of things have come together here that led to this situation. Some of it is also self-inflicted. You simply should have informed yourselves more and more thoroughly.

Topic cost groups: After being commissioned, the architect is responsible for cost groups 300 & 400 if you plan all service phases. Unless you also commission him additionally for the outdoor facilities, etc. Apparently, parts of cost group 200 are also included because of demolition. Personally, I have always calculated with gross amounts and the cost estimate based on volume worked out for 300 & 400.

Especially since I have now learned from acquaintances who are building in parallel that they received a detailed cost estimate according to DIN 276 at one of the first appointments with their architect.

I don't know what the acquaintances told you or what you understood, but I can hardly imagine that.

With us it went like this:
- Getting to know each other and getting a feel for things including our layout ideas
- Architect visited the plot and read the development plan
- First floor plan proposal and volume estimate. That results in sum X (quite simply 850m³ x 400€) which can vary up by 20% because it’s a gut feeling estimate. That’s just how it is. After that there was the handshake that we wanted to work together. Here there is no detailed cost estimate!!!

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From here you can theoretically go to the bank and apply for a loan based on the cost estimate. But you can also be off by 20%
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You only get a first real cost framework once all offers are available and even then a 5% deviation is still possible. But by then you are already in service phase 7 of 8. I'll leave out service phase 9.

From your architect’s behavior I currently see nothing that is unprofessional, except that he owes you the information on how he arrived at the 325k€.

Believe it or not, this is the normal procedure. Some make a little more or less effort. Whether the cost estimate is then better, however, I seriously doubt at such an early stage as this.

Uff... a lot of things came together here that led to this situation. Some of it is also self-inflicted. You simply should have informed yourselves more and more thoroughly.

...

- First floor plan proposal and volume estimation. The sum X comes out (quite simply 850m³ x 400€) which can deviate upwards by 20% because it’s a rough estimate. That’s just how it is. After that, there was a handshake that we wanted to work together. There is no detailed cost estimate here!!!

I only partly agree with the "self-inflicted." "More and more thorough informing" was simply hardly feasible for us time-wise (and was communicated as such). We get up around 5:30 am and everything is so tightly scheduled that if I deal with the topic, I do it from 10 pm onwards.

By detailed estimate, I meant that our acquaintances received an estimate that, like yours, was based on volume. But based on this estimate, all the cost points according to DIN 276 were then estimated by percentage...

That for the fee calculation according to HOAI the net amount is to be used is hopefully undisputed, isn’t it?

If you should change the architect, he may possibly charge you for his work. Everything you wrote that he has already done sounds like service phases 1-3, which, if I base it on the 53k€, amounts to 14k€. Even without a contract, he could legally try to claim this, as he has provided a service. I've read this here several times already. Are the 53k€ at least gross?