Construction supervision by an expert?

Don't get me wrong --> if I had seen that everything was going according to plan and I didn't always have to intervene - because it's taking too long once again - it wouldn't be a problem at all. But I'm now doing the specification with the electrician myself (I want to do some things on my own, like the bus system) and I'm also mostly present with the plumber while the architect is not. However, he is absent when important appointments are right at the construction site. It then seems to me as if he has more important things to do, and that makes me sorry to spend these sums. Well, let's see how this all continues. The excavation work started today.

Hi,

.... but a sum of 14,000 EUR in my opinion is not proportional to the services rendered for construction supervision.

how do you come to that?

Construction expert, with all due respect to the civil engineers and other graduates of this field, but in my opinion an amount of 14,000 EUR is not proportionate to the efforts spent on construction supervision.

Correct! Especially in this area, the HOAI is a relic of the past (preservation of vested rights) and clearly in need of reform! In other countries there is no HOAI, yet architects sometimes earn more than in Germany. Anyone who believes that architectural services for a supraregional general contractor/general planner are billed according to HOAI is dreaming a marvelous dream. Best regards

Hi,

how do you get that?

Well, how many hours does an architect / civil engineer spend on the complete supervision of a single-family house construction?

If I calculate this in a layman’s and pragmatic way, based on a 6-month construction period, which should be within the normal range today, I come to the following effort (already generously estimated in my opinion):

Once a week site visit including travel = 26 weeks x 2 hours = 52 hours

On-site appointment for each partial acceptance and final acceptance, assuming 5 = 5 x 4 hours = 20 hours

So I come to 72 hours. Let’s add another 30 hours of office work, then it’s 102, which would correspond to an hourly rate of about 137 EUR at 14,000 EUR. Too much, in my opinion.

Hello €uro,

Especially in this area, the HOAI is a relic of past times (protection of vested interests) and clearly in need of reform! In other countries there is no HOAI, yet architects sometimes earn more than in Germany

Dear forum colleague – there are days when I wonder if you are "coincidentally" involved with the thread’s subject matter and are very annoyed about it or just want to stir me up a bit

The HOAI is not a “protection of vested interests” – it is, besides a few other things, something that guarantees us all a reliable and thus calculable figure. And with this reliability, it also provides the basis for possibly necessary claims for damages. By the way, I care little to not at all whether architects elsewhere earn more or less, because I know that elsewhere it is also much more difficult to hold an architect accountable for their rubbish – if they even deliver it.

Architects usually employ – at least the good ones among them – a whole stable of staff who want to see their salary on their account punctually every month. In addition, architects are prohibited from advertising their business. Yet they must constantly be up to date with technology, continuously buy new programs, printers, plotters, etc. The latest “gag” is the much-loved 3D visualization for the end customer – all this costs money and not a little.

I know that you are very engaged in your technical building equipment planning and I also know that in terms of invoicing, you are far below what your “colleagues” demand for their work. The question is, how long can you keep that up? So far you will at most – if at all – have to cover the costs for an office and yourself. If your order volume steadily grows – which I sincerely wish you – you will be forced to hire staff and thus your cost apparatus will implicitly approach the “normal” amounts that are demanded (must be demanded) in your industry for technical building equipment planning. What if then a “new” Euro underbids your prices?

Anyone who believes that architectural services are billed according to HOAI by a supraregional GU/GÜ is dreaming a wonderful dream

That is not Stefanoi’s topic and is a completely different matter. These architects are either permanently employed or work – similar to retired tax consultants – with a draftsman who develops the floor plans and the architect only has to put his signature underneath.

I can’t even describe how much this “stinginess is cool” mentality gets on my nerves! First want to pay (almost) nothing at the front and then complain when “only” the actual value of (almost) nothing is ready to move in; if at all. I would like to see these users when their employer tells them that their work on the job is overpriced ... oh silly me – now I remember again, I experience that every year, for example, when public transport is once again completely down and the probable right to a pay raise is fought out on the backs of those who earn the wages ...

Just my two Coins ...

So how many hours does an architect / civil engineer spend on the complete supervision of a single-family house construction?

If I calculate this in a layman and pragmatic way, based on a 6-month construction period, which should be normal nowadays, I come to the following effort (already generously calculated in my opinion):

Once a week site visit including travel = 26 weeks x 2 hrs. = 52 hrs.

On-site appointment for each partial acceptance and final acceptance, assuming 5 = 5 x 4 hrs. = 20 hrs.

So I come to 72 hrs. Let’s add 30 hrs. of office work, then it’s 102, which would correspond to an hourly rate of about 137 EUR at 14,000 EUR. Too much, in my opinion.

Well, that is what one might call a simplistic calculation. Do you know everything that belongs to service phase 8 - site supervision?

Service phase 8: Site supervision (construction supervision)

a) Supervising the execution of the object for compliance with the building permit or approval, the execution plans and service descriptions as well as with the generally recognized rules of technology and the relevant regulations

b) Supervising the execution of structures according to § 50 paragraph 2 numbers 1 and 2 for compliance with the structural safety verification

c) Coordinating the professionals involved in site supervision

d) Supervision and detailed correction of prefabricated parts

e) Setting up and monitoring a schedule (bar chart)

f) Keeping a construction diary

g) Joint measurement with the construction companies

h) Acceptance of construction services with the participation of other professionals involved in planning and site supervision, including identification of defects

i) Invoice verification

j) Cost determination according to DIN 276 or according to the residential property law calculation regulations

k) Application for official approvals and participation therein

l) Handover of the object including compilation and handover of the required documents, for example operation manuals, test reports

m) Listing the limitation periods for defect claims

n) Supervising the elimination of defects identified during the acceptance of construction services

o) Cost control by checking the performance accounting of the construction companies compared to the contract prices and the cost estimate

Source: HOAI.de

There is a lot of work behind this. And last but not least: RESPONSIBILITY!
So please do not just count the hours you see the architect.

Regards