Renovation of a 1960s house: Questionable expert recommendations?

But making 2 separate residential units out of it is a bit of a hassle, isn’t it?
Otherwise, turn room 3 into a bathroom and it’s still a nice and up-to-date layout even today.

If the residential units have to be separated that "strictly," it really is a hassle. However, we know from acquaintances that the separation often only exists in the plans and the execution is then something different. We also really like the floor plan and don’t want to sacrifice it just for the sake of the subsidy. On the other hand, it’s about grants that you don’t just leave on the table. Room 3 is already the bathroom and will remain so.

Second bathrooms were often retrofitted, as were partition walls between kitchens and pantries frequently removed. Kopf means the same by “Stein” as by “Tisch”: the narrow side. Houses from this period often still had walls made of bricks stood on edge (5 or 7 cm thick) or lath and plaster walls, e.g., between WC and bathroom. A concrete ceiling above the ground floor would be unusual for this period and house size, though I could be mistaken and the drawing might be correct. I concluded this from the wall between the parents’ room and room 2, which seems to be masonry. However, it wouldn’t be supported by the beam ceiling in that way. It probably stands on a steel beam stretched between the load-bearing interior wall and the masonry section next to the terrace door.

Thanks for the clarification.

However, I wonder – due to current circumstances ;) – how you managed to pull off the project financially?
Because there is quite a difference between asking the bank for an additional 150K or 300K for renovation when it’s actually still unclear how you want to renovate at all. Or what the house can take on in terms of effort…
Everything at maximum?

Hello L.o.n.a, congratulations on the reservation. That’s already a good feeling when you’ve taken the first step. Did you have a bidding contest? Fortunately, we were the first (solvent) viewers and the community of heirs wasn’t interested in squeezing out as much money as possible.
All banks we talked to wanted a corresponding report from a KfW-certified consultant before financing renovation. Since we couldn’t provide that before the notary appointment, we initially financed the purchase and are doing the renovation as a separate step.
Good luck with your project!

In the meantime, we have the report from the second appraiser. With roof/facade/basement ceiling insulation, new windows/doors, and an air-to-water heat pump, he comes to KfW85. However, he continued to calculate with the existing radiators and didn’t consider photovoltaics.

If the housing unit has to be separated so "strictly," it is actually a hassle. We also know from acquaintances that the separation often only exists in the plans and the execution is then on a different document. We really like the floor plan and actually do not want to sacrifice it just for the sake of the subsidy. On the other hand, it's about grants that you can't just leave lying around. Room 3 is already the bathroom and remains so.

This is called subsidy fraud. Although homebuilders often treat it like a minor offense— as if you don't just try a cube of cheese at the deli counter but a handful because you're hungry— it is outright fraud. In the five-figure range.

If the residential unit has to be separated so "strictly," it's actually a hassle. We also know from acquaintances that the separation often only happens on paper and the execution is then on a different level. We really like the floor plan and don't actually want to sacrifice it just for the sake of funding. On the other hand, it’s about grants that you can’t just leave unused. Room 3 is already the bathroom and will remain so.

So you want to cheat then. Just say so. But you do realize that the KfW randomly a) checks all invoices for plausibility related to the measures and b) also comes to the property to inspect the measure?

With roof/facade/basement ceiling insulation, new windows/doors, and an air-to-water heat pump, he reaches KfW85. However, he still calculated with the existing radiators and did not consider photovoltaics.

Photovoltaics doesn’t play such a big role. But you should seriously consider underfloor heating then.

I have no intention to cheat, I have only described the implementation in other projects. If built differently than approved, it is fraud. If the necessary conditions (separate access and cooking/washing facilities in both resulting residential units) are met, it is not fraud. We also know that spot checks are carried out.
We now have to decide whether we want to ruin the floor plan to get a lot of money for free or not.
Inhaling a whole handful at the cheese counter is rude, but not fraud at first ;)

But you should seriously consider underfloor heating.

Underfloor heating is currently firmly planned. The energy consultant also knew about it. I also wonder why he did not take it into account.

Hello Schwalbe,
we are currently planning the renovation of a similar house from a similar year of construction, but with an extension.
Since our roof needs to be redone and for various reasons we are also planning facade insulation, our energy consultant currently assumes Kfw 55. Exact details on insulation thickness etc. are not yet fixed, he has apparently done this several times before.

We have “firmly” planned similar to you:
- Roof insulation (outside and between rafters)
- Heat pump with photovoltaic (might even result in Kfw55 ee)
- Underfloor heating in the extension and upper floor (so far unrenovated)
- Facade insulation
- Insulation of basement ceiling
- Water pipes
- Wastewater pipes
- Electricity

However, we will create two “real” residential units from it, but could also plan for three. Two of these would initially be combined and only separated in the future. Whether this is really allowed, I am not quite sure yet.

I hope to receive a list of the necessary work for Kfw 85 / 70 / 55 soon to better estimate the additional effort.

Regards
Christian

Two of them would first be combined and only separated in the future. Whether that is really allowed, I am not entirely sure yet.

So you are only converting it into a two-family house. Therefore, funding is only possible for two residential units. You can't say that you are building a nice spacious single-family house with 250 sqm and want three times the funding because you might possibly convert it into three apartments at some unknown time in the future. Only what is actually done is eligible for funding. "Flights of fancy" are not. It's like financing where salary increases over the next 10 years are already taken into account so that you can even afford the loan.