Masonry basement or concrete basement?

Hi Anderl,

I do not agree with Iktinos.
Imagine a masonry wall that has been sealed with bitumen etc. What happens if the coating is defective at some point? How quickly does the water find its way into the basement and what does the renovation cost?

How is it with a concrete wall?

I cannot believe the basic statement regarding the preferred construction method from the architect and general contractor! If the architect does not trust his shell builder to build a WU basement, he can always have a basement made of WU concrete with bitumen thick coating built.

Regards
Mibe

How much air is supposed to pass through the masonry walls that does not pass through the concrete? Why should the room climate change significantly because of it? Fresh air is brought in by airing and/or the ventilation system. Moisture balance is provided by the lime-cement plaster of the interior walls.

How is it with a concrete wall?

If concrete quality and careful execution are not identical, you have the bigger problem with precast concrete panel walls.

I cannot believe the basic statement about the preferred execution by the architect and general contractor!

Then ask an architect you trust.

If concrete quality and careful execution are not congruent, you have the bigger problem with precast concrete panel walls.

For one thing: I meant cast-in-place concrete walls, not precast walls.
For another, more specifically: When the waterproofing membrane (KMB) reaches the end of its lifespan after 40 years on bricks, it definitely and visibly leaks through.
With concrete, there have to be gravel clusters present for you to see the mess inside after 40 years.

Then ask an architect you trust.

You mean the architect of my least distrust.
Seriously: What is the advantage of brick regarding waterproofing?

Seriously: Where is the advantage of bricks regarding sealing?

The concrete wall is seamless, actually better. But it can also be seen the other way around (experts are humans too, and their views are never free of personal opinion): a masonry wall, in a way, has with each horizontal joint between two layers of bricks also a possibility for the insertion of a moisture barrier.

In other words: the masonry wall is on the one hand potentially more vulnerable – but if so, the ingress can be more easily contained in its spread there. So: properly executed, the concrete wall is better, but if botched, the masonry wall has the advantage of a more limited repair area (each starting from a few punctual leaks).

: I do not agree. The moisture barrier you "proposed" firstly works only vertically and secondly, I have never seen anyone install a moisture barrier in every bed joint.

If we compare like with like (i.e. an average concrete wall with KMB after 40 years and an average brick wall with KMB after 40 years), then I see the advantage with the concrete wall. If you already expect shoddy work, I still see an advantage in the concrete wall. - oh wait: Now I can partially understand Iktinos' train of thought: The sloppy general contractor prefers concrete with KMB, because then the concrete pouring and sealing have to be botched in order for the client to notice something. And he can more easily excuse himself: "The damp spot on the wall is not water from outside, but residual moisture from the concrete. It can take more than 10 years for the concrete to really dry. Since we sealed the basement so well on the outside, all that water must go inside."