Heating type for new construction - Which is the best?

  • Erstellt am 2017-10-07 20:33:41

ruppsn

2017-10-26 08:26:14
  • #1
Let’s make it concrete please: what are things that a layperson can oppose to a contractor (HB), and how does a layperson determine that the contractor has no clue?

It’s easy to say that you should inform yourself beforehand, but about what exactly? Reading individual cases where the framework conditions are unknown and maybe not even comparable? Along with statements from partly laypeople who, apart from a strong opinion, have neither many years of experience nor the appropriate training?

What exactly are you supposed to do when the contractor says, we select this or that system with such and such kW and buffer storage based on the heat load calculation and for these and those reasons? Seriously, that someone in a forum said this is nonsense and contractors have no idea about the matter?

So, what are concrete points, checklist-style, that the builder can mentally go through to find out in conversation with the contractor and/or planner that there is actually nonsense being built here?

And preferably something more concrete than “all contractors” have no idea when buffer storage is planned and “inform yourselves.” And very preferably with sources or statements from experts, because otherwise it’s a single opinion of a layperson who at best knows their own property, which stands against the opinion of professionals with experience from many other projects – while the latter also has to guarantee that the building will later be warm and stay that way. The former just has the convenient situation of claiming things from a distance about the local conditions without having to take any responsibility in any way for the damage they cause.

Without concrete reference points, it’s really difficult if not impossible for the prospective builder to make any impact, isn’t it?
 

ruppsn

2017-10-26 08:43:11
  • #2
Where do you get that from? Certainly not from the HB, who doesn’t know anything anyway because he has already disqualified himself with his full-on statement? TGA planner? With whom very, very many people (architects, HBs, SVs and also TGA planners themselves) say that this is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut in a single-family house? So how does the prospective builder get a “reasonable plan,” who carries it out, and how can he tell that the proposed solution is a reasonable one? What are the criteria for such a reasonable solution? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not questioning your opinion, but for example, I’m right in the middle of the heating planning... only how am I supposed to know that it might not be reasonable?
 

Joedreck

2017-10-26 09:48:00
  • #3
You simply can’t do it as a disinterested layperson. I myself am nothing more than an interested layperson who has been intensively involved with it for over 7 years. The contact point is an engineering office. The floor plan and the construction description go there. Theoretically, you can also do the heat load calculation yourself. The engineer will then calculate the heat loads for you. Then you go to the HB. You tell them that you want a maximum flow temperature of 30 degrees at one of your design temperatures. And that at a room temperature of, for example, 21 degrees. Make sure to fix this in writing. That’s how they then design the underfloor heating.

Regarding the other post: of course, it is not wise to express an opinion on the internet without knowing the background. It is not “all HBs” who are incapable, but with a few simple questions you can tell whether they are up to date or if there is a “we’ve always done it this way” attitude. Just ask for the room-based heat load calculation. Many cannot provide that. Or ask about the purpose of the buffer storage tank. You don’t need this if the underfloor heating is properly designed, because then all individual room controllers (except maybe 2) are always fully open and the heat pump has the required volume flow.

The fact is simply that with the advent of the heat pump, different technical requirements have arisen to heat as efficiently as possible. For an oil or gas heating system, it didn’t really matter whether a few degrees more flow temperature were needed. Also, constant on/off switching didn’t matter for those heating systems. But those are exactly the efficiency killers for a heat pump. I know, when building a house there is a lot to plan and consider, and the job doesn’t do itself on the side. But systems costing easily €30,000 are installed in the house and then cannot just be changed afterwards. So you can surely spend two days struggling through Google.

However, there are also very good HBs. I have had very good experiences with two myself.
 

Joedreck

2017-10-26 10:01:31
  • #4
Forgotten: getting warm and staying warm... Yes, that’s how the heating engineer does it in case of doubt. That is also the top priority. But the efficient operation should not be overlooked either. Because you have to deal with the consequences of mistakes for the next 40 years.

By far, I do not claim to be an expert. I just like to give tips, if desired. Besides, everyone is capable of comparing televisions, cars, etc., and then making a choice. But for a final planning of a €400,000 property, the current state of technology is not that interesting. By the way, the heating engineer is a craftsman and salesperson. He usually completed his master craftsman qualification many years ago. After that, he just worked. Staying up to date with rapid technical progress is not easy. When it also becomes technically complicated, people simply switch off.

In an old society where the Federal Chancellor in 2007 (I think) basically says "this internet is new for all of us," nothing surprises me anymore. You just have to keep yourself in the game.
 

saar2and

2017-10-26 12:37:27
  • #5
With gas and oil heating systems, it is not irrelevant to switch them on and off frequently. This can cause condensate to form in the boiler, especially in condensing boilers, which can cause the boiler to corrode. This is much worse for oil heating due to the sulfur condensate mixture.

And the efficiency of an oil or gas condensing boiler also suffers from this.
 

Joedreck

2017-10-26 12:54:48
  • #6
I have deliberately chosen the past tense. I probably should have specified it. I have also deliberately omitted certain aspects here because this is not a technical discussion and I would only be partially capable of doing so.

And yes, efficiency and lifespan also suffer there. But the heat pump is much more sensitive in this regard.
 

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