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No price advantage, definitely added value.. simply because the possibilities are by far greater than with KNX and much easier to implement.

Because otherwise, KNX also requires a server, and if it goes down it's game over.

You have never really worked with Loxone, have you?

Why do I need a server for KNX?
Serious question. Our KNX installation runs completely without a server.
We do have a server, but it is only for AD, files, and network monitoring.

Added value definitely..

I pass the ball back...You probably have never worked with KNX. Loxone, on the other hand, offers absolutely no added value...none at all.

simply because the possibilities are far greater than with KNX

Uh, no. Not really.

and much easier to implement.

Uh, yes and no, if you can’t handle the ETS. Then of course, everything is stupid and only solutions with colorful pictures are cool...

If you can, then also a no here...clicky colorful stuff as already written here is not needed...it works perfectly fine without it when configuring. The final visualization can then be done wonderfully clicky-colorful on any platform. Natively in KNX if desired or with any other piece of hardware and software. You don’t even need the ETS anymore if you don’t want to.

Because otherwise a server is also needed with KNX, and if it fails, it’s game over just the same.

Well, that’s actually the biggest added value compared to Loxone at all. Luckily, a server is not necessary at all in a functioning KNX system. With smart component selection, you can do far more than with Loxone, and all that without any server. But I know for the smart selection and parameterization you need knowledge again, which many don’t have. Because maybe you turned off the right path somewhere.

You have never really worked with Loxone, have you?

Yes, sure, but it offers no added value. No price advantage. Proprietary. And a few more annoyances. Like the already mentioned problems with the server. On top of that, the system can be relatively easily crippled. No, sorry...Loxone is for people who don’t care much about one thing or another. But yes, it is quickly set up. But whether you want to sacrifice a lot for the quick setup...well.

Isn't there even the possibility to use the Loxone Miniserver as a logic engine and for visualization in a standard KNX installation? I mean for what goes beyond the basic functions and where I'm not left in the dark if the Miniserver fails? I still have that in mind, as I was impressed by the intuitiveness of Loxone, but due to the limitation with the components and the single point of failure, I ultimately moved away from it. However, I need to deal with it again once the basics are in place, even though I am currently leaning more towards iobroker or openhab for these tasks.

Yes, that is possible, but you can also use any other (suitable without or with KNX on board) logic engine. Here, it does not necessarily have to be Loxone. Others can also be parameterized by finger on the tablet or phone and can sometimes be cheaper and more robust than the mentioned logic server.

For the end customer, you need a programmer for every little thing. No programmer can implement the customer's wishes correctly the first time.

KNX makes sense if someone can do it themselves, or in commercial settings where changes rarely occur. But as soon as I need a programmer for every little change, it becomes an expensive affair.

If you take a look at who works together with Loxone and provides the appropriate APIs, you can implement almost anything.

Why should I use other manufacturers when I can implement it like this?

And as soon as I want to visualize something via web or through an app, I need a server and I'm already back at the price of Loxone, which already has that on board.

Topic of Miniserver failure... apart from the SD card, it's now rather rare. A Loxone partner should actually have a Miniserver in stock and with the appropriate backup, it's a matter of 30 minutes.

If the customer thinks they can program it themselves... then that's not my problem. You just restore the backup and it's working again.

For the end customer you need a programmer for every little thing. No programmer can implement the customer's wishes perfectly the first time.

How current is your information? We are now in 2021. The end customer can do a lot themselves nowadays. You just have to give them the possibilities. If you don’t grant these possibilities or don’t know how to do it, then yes... then you need someone to guide them for almost every little thing.

But as soon as I need a programmer for every little change, it becomes an expensive affair.

Well, thankfully those times are long gone.

If you look a bit at who works with Loxone and provides the appropriate API, you can realize pretty much anything.

No advantage can be seen here either.

Why should I use other manufacturers if I can implement it like this?

For example, for budget reasons.

And as soon as I want to visualize something via web or through an app, I need a server and I’m back at the Loxone price that already has this on board.

But even here, no price advantage on Loxone’s side, so why? Why settle for second place when you can get first place for exactly the same money???