Are marine exhibitions generally very expensive?

I will respond specifically to Alex. We Germans are hopeless idealists, we like to argue in principle, postulate how things should be, and focus on the future. Maybe you are right. But, simply put, I am Anglo-Saxon influenced, the job has to be done today. What good is it to the OP how things might be in five or seven years? Now he's annoyed about the bathroom display prices, the half price on Amazon, about his plumber, and if I understood correctly, he is building through a general contractor. So, now you advise him to use MyHammer and the internet. I say, don’t do it. It can backfire. Harald has power in the construction industry. My tip was also not to accept the high price, but to talk to him about what he can do cheaply, possibly also [sanifair] or another sanitary own brand. Otherwise, take the standard and upgrade later. And believe me, Alex, since I am professionally quite skilled in life world analysis and Sinus milieus, this kind of Harald, not very internet savvy, relationship-oriented, preferring phone calls to emails, cash lover, etc., is surprisingly stable as a milieu. Academics often can’t believe this, for example, that the rallying cry of the FDP and the Greens, digitalization, does not bother the lower middle class or the adaptive pragmatists at all or hardly at all. They listen to Helene Fischer, need the internet to watch YouTube jokes, and would rather call Willy, “give me a price for thirty ideal standard toilets, I have a good job, a vacation apartment complex to renovate,” than spend hours researching online. Because the expensive part of the 30 toilets is the installation labor anyway, whether the bowl costs 66 or 75 euros hardly matters.

, who wrote something about being stingy is cool?

No one, quite the opposite.

Me neither Did I miss any posts today?

...because they don’t need to come with the idea that they have a stingy-is-cool mentality.

Did anyone write that???

And fantasizing pseudo-scenarios of sloppy work that only occur with other (cheaper) plumbers to subsequently sweeten the additional costs or convince themselves that it couldn’t be done any other way is quite adventurous.

No one wrote that either... I find your choice of words pretty aggressive.

All idiots who take trades out of general contractor contracts or don’t even build with a general contractor at all?

No one wrote that either. (Did I possibly skip a few pages today?)

Lately, you’ve been skimming a lot and interpreting some things that aren’t there into statements that don’t suit you.
As if you have a position to defend.

I also wouldn’t know what this has to do with the "extra charge"?
In our scope of work description, it was listed what you get. We had two lines to choose from, we really liked one of them. Not cheap or stingy-is-cool series. If it had been different, we would have chosen another line or series before signing the contract.
Extra charge yes, but for other fittings that we liked better (about €50 per fitting... the fitting was also more expensive at Reuter proportionally)
The bathtub was also clear that it should be a Duo in 180. It cost something at Reuter with a 2 in front.
Wall-hung toilet - costs more at Reuter than the standard, too. Shower drain channel... no idea how expensive at Reuter... with us 4-500... Overall, our "extra charge for specification" amounted to 3 something.... So where exactly is the juicy surcharge for the plumber who worked on the site according to the general contractor???

But if you naively choose every designer bathroom yourself like "You only build once" and want the flush button with a mother-of-pearl inlay because the sparkle looks so great there right now, you shouldn’t be surprised if the surcharge is many times higher than the standard offer.

The toilet with lid e.g. from the exhibitor around 700 euros, on Amazon about half.

...if you look on Amazon, that’s not a standard for an average single-family home with high-quality equipment, because that’s exactly where I ask the builder: Why a general contractor AI with average standard if prince and princess prefer to sparkle in designer enamel?

Yes, we also fell in love with the mirror of the hereafter. But we don’t pay 2000 for a bathroom mirror - there are other stylish options where you get away with 3-400€ and it still looks good.

So, finished in this thread.

One more thing,
is building with individual contracts.
Didn’t you get a quote beforehand? I think something like that belongs in the architect’s tender and calculation.
Therefore, the purchase, wherever it may be, should not be a problem. Just put the installation out to tender.

That does not exclude each other at all. You are talking about the local craftsman around the corner. It is logical that he cannot compete with the cheapest stingy price from the internet. ....
For me, it was one of the biggest reasons why we decided against a general contractor. Not to save money, but to get solid companies from the region, with service and reasonable goods – and commitment – for the same money.

Ah, there's the bad word [emoji12] Fuchur, exactly for the reasons you mentioned regarding the region and reasonable goods, service, and commitment, we built with a general contractor (from the region and not from intensive farming)

Hi ypg,

Me neither Did I miss any posts during the day?

No, you didn’t. The exact phrase "stinginess is cool" certainly wasn’t used, that’s true. But the general tenor, at least from nordlys, was clearly perceivable to me. That includes my second statement of yours quoted above.

I actually read that from your post with your reference to Amazon and Reuter. However, I just reread your post and realized it was meant differently. In that respect, you are not meant at all on that point, I simply misunderstood you. These things happen, apologies nonetheless.

Nobody wrote that either... I find your choice of words quite aggressive

Is my choice of words aggressive when I describe something as adventurous? But if I call others software folks, smart alecks, or similar, or implicitly portray them as idiots (quote: "But if I, of course, naïvely choose every designer bathroom for myself...") just because they like (overpriced) bling-bling or have a liking for designer bathrooms, then that’s all harmonious and just fine?! Sounds a bit strange to me – and I mean that completely non-aggressively

"And fantasizing pseudo-scenarios of sloppy work that only occur with other (cheaper) plumbers..."

Please reread some posts again, for example the one about damage after 1.5 years, that’s implied there. If not, then please take a look here:

Regarding the external craftsmen that Reuter and co have in their database, I won’t say anything. Anyone can register as a Hei-o-pei to fill empty order books

How was that meant if not that the craftsmen at Reuter (or MyHammer) etc. are all Hei-o-peis... it’s not as if I was the only one who understood it that way. Some other posts apparently took it the same way... so I would exclude it being purely a recipient issue

Lately you read a lot diagonally and interpret quite a bit into some statements that aren’t there and don’t suit you.

May I ask where you derive that from? Such claims are easy and quick to make, so please back that up. I just don’t understand it, maybe because...

As if you have a position to defend.

... I am/was a software guy – and now for the big surprise (for nordlys): also a graduate :-o
So please tell me, which position should I be defending here?

My topic is rather outdated sales models that shine through opacity and thus open the door wide to ripping off (uninformed) customers and treating them as fools. And yes, it can well be that I get a bit more passionate when there are posts suggesting that ONLY this old model is the one true model and alternatives per se are bad and worthless, e.g., because of Hei-o-peis. That is firstly not true and offers zero added value to the questioner and interested readers...

I wouldn’t know what all this has to do with "surcharge"?

Didn’t you write yourself:

However, you do want the "comfort" with a general contractor, and you sign the contract with the description of services, which includes the plumbing trade’s work.

... and since comfort doesn’t come around the corner for free -> surcharge.

Where exactly is the juicy surcharge for the plumber that worked with us according to the general contractor???

Why with you? I can only speak of my experience, which the statement referred to: General contractor here in Franconia, 3 plumbing product lines that we didn’t like. The reasons shouldn’t matter, but I will name them anyway, so it doesn’t come back as "bling bling" or "naïve designer bathroom." We prefer, matching our house, rather cubic shapes, which simply were not available. So I had SPECIFIED the samples in advance in consultation with the general contractor and had him offer me what I have in my rental apartment. Duravit Starck 3. Certainly nothing bling-bling and nothing that could seriously pass as a "designer" bathroom, even if Philippe Starck is a designer. Plus fittings by VuB (Just). One master bathroom, one guest bathroom. Price according to sampling (Giener+Funk) €16,000!!! Asked the general contractor what the surcharge would be then. Answer: €16,000!!! Asked why nothing was charged, since it is a standard in the house price. Answer: that’s just the price from the plumber... so, just for fun, I put exactly the same items with all the small stuff into the shopping cart at Reuter: about €9.... Now tell me, isn’t that a juicy surcharge for (premium) standard ceramics or is all that perfectly fine?

For the price difference, the local master plumber I commissioned, who was not tied by the general contractor, can charge on average €300 per project for installation. Then he benefits, I support the local middle class with its employees and not some squeezed subcontractor who, due to low margins, has to outsource the order to potentially moderately qualified "craftsmen" from abroad and has to struggle with special customer requests.

Moreover, with about 10 projects, I come to €3,000 and could even in the worst case, that a bowl once had a hairline crack, snapped during tightening and Reuter or whoever does NOT replace it, easily buy the material again and still be cheaper.

I can well believe that GUs like to make a fuss when it comes to external contracting. Only the question of why you should perhaps get explained by the GU and ask him how architects manage to build houses with bathrooms AND tiles... because actually that can’t be coordinated unless a GU is holding the reins...

It seems to me that you haven’t really dealt with the counterarguments, because why should Reuter be liable if your commissioned plumber does a bad job? Why should the plumber who attached the basin be responsible if the pipe breaks in the wall? Seriously, why?

Regardless, you are operating in high speculation. You are guessing, as I understand it at least, what could happen if you had Reuter in the case you have now. But that leads to nothing... because first of all you didn’t sign the contract with Reuter, but still with the local plumber. Nothing else than if you were to equip your bathroom with new porcelain in 10 years. Or do you then call the GU and ask for the plumber who did the installation 10 years ago?!

You yourself built with a GU and now have a water damage after 1.5 years, right? So what did the choice for the GU plumber bring to avoid the damage?

Could it be that some here write reflexively against something they don’t even know?! Just for your information, Reuter.de also has a retail store and showroom in Düsseldorf – and not just a small one...

Why does nobody actually address the electrician analogy and the two or three concrete questions about exactly where the problem with installing standardized parts lies? Maybe because nobody can come up with arguments?

, who said anything about “stinginess is cool”? No one, quite the opposite. The work of the plumber should of course be paid appropriately and fairly, no one has claimed otherwise.

If for you the service of the plumber and the comfort of getting everything from one source (which I personally don’t see or need) is worth a surcharge, that’s fine. But I find it concerning to approach people who aren’t willing to pay for that because they don’t need it by accusing them of having a stingy mentality. And fabricating pseudo scenarios of sloppy work that allegedly only happens with other (cheaper) plumbers, just to rationalize the extra cost afterwards or to convince themselves it couldn’t be any other way, is quite adventurous.

You see added value for yourself and are willing to pay extra. Others and I either don’t see the added value or aren’t willing to pay. And now that’s blameworthy? I don’t get it...

You don’t understand me, I don’t want to deal with the subject matter. We have a complaint about the house wall. It’s been going back and forth for months between the GU and his painter and third-party company about who is responsible where, it’s only €2,000 as far as I know, but nobody wants to pay.

At the end of the day you come here and advise, it’s quite simple: Plumber 1 pipe, Plumber 2 angle valve, and you just screw the toilet from Amazon on yourself. With a pipe break it’s clearly Plumber 1’s problem.

No, it’s not. When it comes to money people argue. Your advice is really often rubbish.