New build - which SmartHome system?

Well, there are also people who say, take the Lite and start the next project after 20 devices and keep the GAs identical ... I would have no patience for such tinkering at all

We are currently facing the same question: building automation but with which concept? There are plenty of providers, from Free@Home (Busch Jäger), Loxone through E-Net (Jung) to KNX. I am currently wondering if one of the provider-bound systems is not sufficient for the purposes of a single-family house. Isn’t using KNX like shooting sparrows with cannons? But I must also honestly admit that I lack imagination for use cases in this environment. So far, I have always assumed lighting, room climate control, and shading as sensible use cases. However, I am wondering how sensible the control of underfloor heating (slow-acting) and a state-of-the-art heat pump with smart home really is.

yes sure, that is one possibility, but I totally agree with you, then I’d rather buy the Pro with a 50% discount. Since ETS-Inside is now available and runs stably, many things have become easier. And you have to accept a certain fate. Either you spend some money or you tinker around at zero cost.

Another possibility is simply outsourcing all the logic etc. to one or more devices which can be administered without ETS. I also know quite a few installations where KNX is used as the backbone and all the higher functions are taken over by LogicMachine, Savant, Homeserver or, newly included, Timberwolf.

Then the end user can set everything as desired without ETS.


Proprietary systems have a decisive disadvantage. You cannot integrate everything that comes your way during the course of life. With KNX, since it is an open and worldwide recognized and certified standard, you can.

Don’t take it too seriously, I’m just giving some examples:

With KNX, you can control your ABUS alarm system via an AGFEO phone system, which then uses Roto window contacts and can open and close Velux roof windows in the house. Data sometimes comes from Merten or Gira sensors and a Busch Jäger weather station. In wind and weather your Rademacher blinds are retracted and your Vallox or Helios ventilation system always ensures fresh air and constantly adjusts to the current pollution level inside and outside the house. To prevent it from getting too warm inside, your Westinghouse fan rotates and the Mitsubishi air conditioner provides pleasant room air, etc.

As you can see, a bunch of manufacturers work together here although they actually use completely different components and protocols within their own systems – this only works because there is a common medium. With proprietary systems it’s different – there it ends somewhere and with one manufacturer the end comes quite quickly, with another a little slower, but one thing is always certain: somewhere it ends.

Regarding underfloor heating and heat pumps, the question is what should be controlled and to what extent the integration is imagined.

Of course, I kept coming back to KNX (as here in the forum as well). But I'm not really happy with it either, because I don't want to call a programmer every time I want to change something; I also don't necessarily want to buy the ETS license.
Furthermore, I want to integrate and network fingerprint scanners, Sonos, or heat pumps, but I haven't fully figured that out with KNX.

You don't want to ask anyone or have anyone come, but you also don't want to buy the software yourself? That's going to be difficult. Free@Home or all the other limited systems are okay for basic tasks, but once you get to fingerprint scanners, Sonos, or heat pumps, it gets really tight. You can't avoid KNX there. Also, with KNX, you are open to manufacturers and not dependent on one or two.

I consider integrating the heat pump unnecessary in 99% of cases. Regulating the valves for underfloor heating is about all that adds value in almost all private homes. To achieve meaningful automation, you would also need sensors and some instance that intelligently manages everything together.

Either you acquire the knowledge yourself (there is also very useful literature) or you hire someone. Wanting to have it all but not do anything yourself and not pay anyone won't work.

As always, the rule of three applies here as well:

I see I have sparked a lively discussion here. Thanks so far for the input.

I definitely do not want a run-of-the-mill or mixed solution. I am fully aware that I have to invest something, but the entire system should last 20-30 years and run reliably. In addition, I want the security that someone can always help me without me having to throw everything away.

Furthermore, I want to network all systems and keep the option open to adjust or change something tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, or in 2 years. Light and music with fingerprint on stands symbolically for the whole story. When I am ready, I want to intelligently combine the shading with the underfloor heating, the photovoltaic system should interact with the heat pump and possibly also stop producing domestic hot water tonight due to the weather forecast since nice weather is predicted for tomorrow. In my opinion, the whole thing only becomes intelligent or "smart" when the systems are networked.

Regarding ETS: with the ETS demo (please correct me) I can only manage 5 devices, right? My system will certainly have more than 50 devices. How is this supposed to work then? I have no desire to spend another 1000€ and then have to hope that the programmer even hands over the project to me.

I already have some basic knowledge. To automate my system, I should not always have to get professional help (paying hour after hour)? With some sensors, I can already implement useful automation. In the end, the house should behave the way I want, not how it is described in a book.

I had a lot of time over the weekend to research. I still came across Loxone, which also works with KNX. But to what extent can I work on this myself, is there anyone here who has already worked with it?

At the same time, I came across a system I was not familiar with, "myGekko." Here, many different systems are networked, including KNX. As advertised on the website, no programming is done here, but everything is configured via one interface. And there are many other interfaces to Sonos, heat pumps, etc. Does anyone know this one as well?

Best regards Stefan