Financing comparison: past vs. today

2022-06-20 17:12:27

Well, catchy headlines have to hit, that's clear. My thought is that the accumulation of wealth and thus indirectly power must have limits, especially where there are additional "clique formations" (=families) due to social and cultural framework conditions. Supported by the idea that no achievement simply has success and thus sole merit from itself, and the state's task to ensure social justice, I believe that certain limits in people's minds regarding what and how far can be taxed should be lifted and others tightened (degree of personal enrichment). No single person needs a fortune of several billion EUR. And it makes no practical difference whether you have 100 or 200 million EUR. But now this goes too much towards wealth tax. Oh, an important point is that these absolute limits must be removed. That changes far too much. It somehow needs to be relatively tied to other benchmarks.

2022-06-20 18:14:26

No one has such large fortunes in cash. How is it supposed to work with shares in companies? In the event of inheritance, does the company go to the state with high inheritance tax? Same question for stocks.

Actually, the negative interest on deposits was a very simple wealth tax. But no one liked it either ;)

2022-06-20 18:18:57

Such large fortunes are rarely held in cash. How is it supposed to work with shares in companies? In the event of inheritance, does the company go to the state with high inheritance tax? Same question with stocks.

Loan? That should be familiar to everyone here in the forum. And if the heirs do not want to take one out, the business can usually be auctioned to the highest bidder, of course under conditions, preserving jobs, etc.... I believe everyone would rather take out a loan than have to work afterwards.

2022-06-20 19:56:21

Moin Moin,

yes, unfortunately that’s how it is... currently have a financing on the table, buying a house for 559 TEUR, but only need 250 TEUR financing... so 310k + incidental costs as equity

in recent years the volumes of real estate transactions have increased significantly (i.e. the total notarized sales, including land etc.)
but the financing volumes have hardly increased = equity ratio has increased well in recent years.

That is not correct. Both the equity used and the average loan amount have increased sharply in recent years. Which is only logical considering the bubble price increases of the last 3-4 years. Volumes have also moved upwards.

Figures from 2020: €330,000 loan, €115,000 equity – both on average, and not related to the housing category single-family house/semi-detached house. But this study by Interhyp does include data on gifts within families (25% of cases) and also inheritances (36% of cases). Only the amount is likely to differ significantly averaged across Germany – but on average this leads to €115,000 equity.
Unfortunately, the publication is not very precise on the topic of 100%/110% financing – this form was still allowed “back then.” If this really applies to almost 50% of cases (sounds like that in passing, i.e. equity = 0€, seems a bit high to me), one can of course assume that the average equity of all those with equity is then higher.

2022-06-20 19:58:06

No one has such large wealth in cash. How is that supposed to work with shares in companies? In the event of inheritance, does the company go to the state due to high inheritance tax? Same question with stocks. Actually, the negative interest on deposits was a very simple wealth tax. But nobody liked that either ;)

As written above, from (personal) profit. So for example with corporations in addition to the 25% corporate tax. If the wealth remains in the company, no problem (the heir is taxed, not the company). If the owner instead acts as a managing director of a corporation and simply pays himself a horrendous salary, that is already well balanced out by the higher income tax, or of course the contribution assessment ceiling and private health insurance must be abolished. Then the state (I mean all of us, not the bureaucracy) gets enough, for which it has to provide services again. With partnerships I generally do not assume that such large values are inherited, but even if, the same applies: from the profit withdrawal, besides income tax, a small additional amount is due until the inheritance tax is paid off. I’m not an expert, but I refuse to believe that there is no fairer solution than the current one. And yes, the negative interest on deposits was a good test run, I even find it successful. The really high inflation only came through the war. The core inflation (that is without energy prices) is at just over 4%, according to Keynes absolutely okay.

2022-06-20 20:30:38

As written above, from (personal) profit. So, for example, in corporations in addition to the 25% income tax. If the assets remain in the company, no problem (the heir is taxed, not the company). If the owner instead acts as managing director of a corporation and simply pays themselves a horrendous salary, that is already well offset by the increased income tax, or of course the contribution assessment ceiling and private health insurance must be abolished. Then the state (I mean all of us, not the apparatus) gets enough in return to provide services again.
In partnerships, I actually do not assume that such large assets are inherited, but even if they are, it simply counts again, from the profit withdrawal a small extra amount is due besides the income tax until the inheritance tax is paid off.

I am not an expert, but I refuse to believe that there is no fairer solution than the current one.

And yes, the negative interest rate on deposits was a good trial run, I even find it successful. The really high inflation only came about because of the war.
Core inflation (i.e. excluding energy prices) is just over 4%, absolutely okay according to Keynes.

The state has enough, so do we. There is only gross mismanagement. Take a look into the Schwarzenbuch der Steuerzahler [Black Book of the Taxpayer], then everyone knows what is going on.
Before generating more income, waste by politics must first be fought.

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Financing comparison: past vs. today

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