Question regarding the feasibility of financing

Hs

The question was meant seriously. Then I must have misunderstood something somewhere here in the thread. I thought you were looking in the vicinity of Ingolstadt, and Audi is by far the biggest and sometimes the only economic driver, which is why I could have imagined a causality beyond mere correlation here.

Regarding Erlangen, I of course agree with you. In the metropolitan area of Fürth, Erlangen, Nürnberg, there will be no relief anytime soon. I am currently working in Nürnberg myself and inevitably get to know a lot about real estate values in this area through my job.

Erlangen is a topic of its own, but one must not forget that the crazy prices are called not only for Erlangen, Nürnberg, and Fürth, but also for the surrounding villages. No supermarket and no public transport but 200-400€/sqm and more demanded 20 km around the mentioned cities. Totally balabala.

The question was serious.
Then I must have misunderstood something somewhere here in the thread.
I thought you were looking in the Ingolstadt area and since Audi is by far the largest and sometimes the only driving force there, I could imagine a causality beyond the correlation here.

You really didn’t misunderstand anything, but at first I had to keep it vague here in the forum because I was clarifying something where the other party might be reading along here. And Erlangen and Ingolstadt were very similar at that time, and experiences from acquaintances formed the overall picture.
By now things could slowly be changing in Ingolstadt, but I doubt it. It usually doesn’t happen that fast and I haven’t heard anything from my acquaintance on this yet.

Erlangen is a topic on its own, but one must not forget that the crazy prices are not only asked for Erlangen, Nuremberg and Fürth, but also for the surrounding villages. No supermarket and no public transport but 200-400€/sqm and more are demanded within 20km around the mentioned cities. Total balabala.

I can’t report anything concrete yet, but in Erlangen we are north of 1000€/sqm.
Outside, I have noticed that prices fluctuate incredibly. Sometimes empty plots are more expensive than built ones. And everything can be asked for from 400€/sqm up to around 800€/sqm.

I would like to see a buyer statistic, because I am really interested where the money comes from. Let’s assume every buyer has the highest gross income. So let’s generously say 100,000€ gross/year. As a couple we say 150,000€/year together (you have to plan for children, too). That leaves about 90,000€ net per year. At this income, you can assume about 15,000€/year repayment. Let’s assume interest-free to compensate for the roughly +/- 5,000€/year. Then you would have 450,000€ in 30 years. A plot costs 800,000€ upwards. A cheap house on top. So beyond 1 million euros. And you don’t even get luxury for that (here, end-terrace houses with 500 sqm cost 800,000€).
Then you need an inheritance of about 500,000€ or you pay off for 60-70 years. That’s just insane.

So do only people who have inherited a lot or whose parents gift 50% of the house price still buy?
Or do people give up basically everything and pay 3,000€/month?

I just want to know where the money comes from. Apparently, people are buying these houses and plots.

So far I don’t know anyone who has bought a house in Erlangen (in the last few years), only people who inherited the grandparents’ house. That’s why I lack the possibility to get private insights here.

How do you come to 800k for a plot of land at max. 800€/sqm? It should be clear that you cannot afford plots of 1000sqm or more in urban areas. It has to be smaller then. And anyone who can only repay 1,250€ with 7,500€ net per month has their priorities completely elsewhere anyway.

Why should one only have a 15k loan installment annually with 90k yearly income? Whoever spends that much on consumption really better not build. That is actually about our income, but the 15k corresponds more to our special repayment.

How do you come up with 800k for a plot of land at a maximum of 800€/sqm? It should be clear that you can’t afford plots of 1000 sqm or more in metropolitan areas. It has to be smaller then.

And anyone who can only pay off 1,250€ with a net income of 7,500€ per month clearly has other priorities anyway.

800€/sqm is outside the city. In the city, we are beyond 1000€. And you should also factor in the interest.
Did I write 1250€? Sorry, I meant 1500€/month. That would be 18,000€ per year, not 15,000€.
These figures now came as a conservative interpretation from the forum, since I was initially also surprised that one should only count on a fixed repayment of 1500€/month with about 6-8k€ net. I also thought you could rather plan for double that, but it seemed to be the consensus here. At least if you want to have children and still enjoy your life. That does not mean living extravagantly, but summer vacations with the kids and similar things. You shouldn’t live from paycheck to paycheck, but also be able to set aside a few euros a month in case you need a new car, the heating breaks down, the kids go to university, etc. etc.

By the way, I don’t want this to be misunderstood as "complaining" or a "grievance" or an "outburst" (in English "rant"). I accept that it is the way it is, and if I were a seller, I’d also be happy about these prices. I’m just honestly puzzled how this is possible. I know so many colleagues who earn well and still say it’s too expensive.

That’s why my question about 3000€/month. Because only with that can you get to a million euros after 30 years. Regardless of interest, renovations, repairs, etc. 1 million € over 30 years would be enough.
3000€ per month is already a lot. Because if one partner has to give up work (one parent stays at home or maybe one becomes unemployed... currently not so unlikely), the household income quickly falls below 10,000€ gross per month. Then 3000€ repayment is again a lot. Such a house also needs to be maintained. Just imagine both are on 67% short-time work and suddenly earn "only" about 7500€ gross. And we are talking about incomes that many people can only dream of and complain about.

From your perspective, what would the approximate gross household annual income need to be in order to sustainably pay off 3000€/month if you want to live a "normal life," i.e. for example, camping vacations with the children during school holidays, maybe skiing with the children, etc.? Would you calculate less conservatively than it is usual here in the forum?

About the plot size, I should maybe explain:
Personally, and this really is not meant to be judgmental, I prefer to rent in the city with a large apartment and a large communal garden (the forest and a green area are just down the street) rather than mortgage myself until the end of my career for a 600 sqm plot 30 km away. We are still talking about 700,000€ upwards with a house on 600 sqm there. And for that, we suddenly need two cars and both drive 45 minutes to work (instead of 15 minutes by bike or 30 minutes by train; door to door).
So it’s a matter of taste, but a small plot at a high price in an 800-inhabitant village would be subordinate to renting for me. As I said, without judgment and I hope no one feels offended.

I think it is always a matter of personal preference and very individual, and therefore, in my opinion, no general statement can be made.

3,000 euros per month for interest and repayment sounds like a lot, especially if you don’t have the 10,000 euros net as described above. On the other hand, 1,200 euros monthly burden also sounds like a lot for someone who earns 1,800 euros net. It’s just relative.

I assume that everyone who can afford a property has a certain buffer to endure a few months of short-time work or, in the worst case, even unemployment without Peter Zwegat coming and setting up his flipchart.

I also doubt in your statement that someone who can manage a 3,000-euro monthly rate spends their camping holiday in a tent. Here, the standard of living becomes apparent again, and either you have your own motorhome or you rent a suitably well-equipped one for the holiday, ultimately ending up at the same price as an all-inclusive holiday in a nice hotel.