Question regarding the feasibility of financing

First : If my question somehow offends you, I am sorry. But I don’t know why. I think I asked politely for help with my general considerations. And that’s all I’m looking for for now. I will be more specific when a purchase is in sight. Our net income is also above 5k. @ Everyone else: Thank you very much for your active participation. I should definitely qualify my wording: not high earners, but better earners and the top 15%. I also didn’t mean that I personally see myself as a high earner, but I know many who earn around 3500 € net. And if we assume a slightly different distribution, for example 3500 € for one and 1500–2000 € for the other, then the person with 3500 € as a single still has to pay the solidarity surcharge because statistically he belongs to the "top 10%" of earners, as politics told us. One would spontaneously think that these are the people who can afford houses costing 800,000 to 1,000,000 €. Because if not, who pays for the many, many houses here, all starting at 1 million? But that’s just why it surprised me so much how low the estimates should be. But you have the experience, so I am very glad that you answer me so actively. It takes away the illusions that build up through others’ talk. And that you think you can justify mathematically. By the way, I also tell everyone that I wouldn’t want to spend all my money on repayment but actually believe that you should be much more conservative in budgeting for children, vacations with children, sports, maybe later university for the kids. You confirm my suspicion and destroy my hopes

No, all good, I’m not offended. A quick note: if you are two people with a net income of 5,000, you don’t belong to the top 15%...

No, all good, I’m not offended. Quick note: if you are two people with 5,000 net income, you do not belong to the top 15% ...

And certainly not in Ingolstadt. It is often a mistake to refer to the nationwide statistics determined for Germany. However, the differences can already be extreme at the regional level, especially if large corporations are located there, where, to put it simply, even the forklift driver earns 3k net. His wife, working as an office clerk, also certainly earns >2k there. So with bonuses, you are well above 5k net, but in that area a regular semi-detached house already costs 600k. Such well-paying employers can really distort local prices. In some parts of East Germany or the Hunsrück, with that income you are “the king” and might really belong to the top 15%, in Ingolstadt with Audi as headquarters you are probably somewhere around the median.

No, all good, I’m not offended. A quick note: if there are two of you with a net income of 5,000, you don’t belong to the top 15% ...

As I said, I don’t see it that way either. And together we also earn more than 5,000 € net. But if one of them already earns 3,500 € net, he alone counts among the top 15% of earners. If he then gets married and has a child and she works part-time or not at all, he remains in the top 15%. But in total, they then no longer have enough to finance a "normal" house.

This means that counting as part of the top 15% today is just a meaningless political figure. Because 20 years ago, one probably wouldn’t have thought that one of the top 15% could no longer afford a house if his wife does not also work full-time.

Do you know what I mean? And discussions often come up with the parents. And they come from a generation where you bought a house with 50,000 € gross per year, paid it off during your working life, and the mother was still a housewife. That would be unthinkable today even in small towns if you don’t take an extreme risk of losing everything.

And certainly not in Ingolstadt. It is often the mistake to refer to the nationwide statistics determined for Germany. However, the differences can already be extreme on a regional level, especially when large corporations are located there, where, to put it simply, the forklift driver already earns 3k net. His wife as an office worker also certainly makes >2k there. Then, with special payments, you are well above 5k net, but a perfectly normal semi-detached house in the area will already cost 600k. Such well-paying employers can really mess up the local prices. In some parts of East Germany or the Hunsrück, you are "the king" with that income and may truly be among the top 15%, whereas in Ingolstadt with Audi as the main headquarters, you are probably somewhere around the median.

Yes, of course, prices fluctuate strongly. But often not so much within a 30-minute commuting time that you could suddenly just buy/build there.
I also have to say that it always seems like a fallacy to me to assume that everyone who works at big companies like Audi, Mercedes, VW, Siemens, etc., easily earns 5k€ net per month. I roughly know the salary of 50 colleagues and believe that less than half reach that. At least without overtime and bonus payments (which should only be calculated cautiously). Especially not if one of the two then switches to part-time or stays at home.
So I can definitely say that almost no one lives in the city who didn’t inherit here because nobody can afford it anymore. It’s a healthy mix of skilled workers, engineers, and other academics. So quite representative of the rest of the workforce, I think.
By the way, I have observed that nowadays many people are automatically hired one salary grade lower for the same qualification and that promotions have become less frequent (already prior to Corona, of course).
I can only explain/observe it for myself that basically only people live in the city who were born here or bought a house 20-30 years ago. Plus the real top earners of the big companies who, as you said, also earn well above 5k€.

I think I'm simply surprised what has become normal nowadays. Because there are so many calculations that claim that income has risen in the same proportion as real estate prices, etc. (at least interest rate adjusted). But I would not have thought in my school days that, as a supposed "top 10-15% earner" in the country, I would be dependent on my wife working full-time.

As I said, it changes if you are willing to move 20-30 km out of the city. Although there are also many areas like the Nuremberg/Fürth/Erlangen region where so many large companies are located that you probably still have to go farther out. And under 500k€ it will be very difficult even there.

I find it (completely without judgment) just interesting how people calculate themselves, how illusory previous generations’ calculations are, and how conservatively one should calculate.

As written, I don’t see it that way either. And we also earn more than €5,000 net together. But if one of them already earns €3,500 net, he alone counts among the top 15% of earners. If he then gets married and has a child and she only works part-time or not at all, he remains in the top 15%. But together they no longer have enough to finance a "normal" house.

This means that being counted among the top 15% today is only a meaningless number for politics. Because twenty years ago, one would probably not have thought that someone in the top 15% could no longer afford a house if his wife didn’t also work full-time.

You know what I mean? And discussions then often come up with the parents. And they come from a generation where you bought a house with €50,000 gross per year, paid it off during your working life, and the mother was still a housewife. That would be unthinkable today even in small towns unless you take an extreme risk of losing everything.

Yes, I know what you mean but after marriage and the better tax class, he or you no longer earn more. Do you understand what I mean? You have more net because of a more favorable class for you. What matters is what you earn gross. That is somewhat comparable. Net is irrelevant (private/public health insurance; tax class, direct insurance). Net can be optimized a lot. Do you understand what I'm saying???

Yes, of course, prices fluctuate a lot. But often within a commuting time of 30 minutes, not so much that you could suddenly just buy/build.
I also have to say that it always seems like a misconception to me when people assume that everyone who works at big companies like Audi, Mercedes, VW, Siemens, etc. easily earns 5k€ net per month. I roughly know the salary of 50 colleagues and believe that less than half reach that. At least without overtime and bonus payments (which should only be cautiously calculated). Even less so if one of them then goes part-time or stays at home.
So I can definitely say that almost no one lives in the city who hasn’t inherited here because nobody can afford it anymore. It's a healthy mix of skilled workers, engineers, and other academics. So quite representative of the rest of the workforce, I think.
By the way, I have observed that many today are automatically hired one salary grade lower with the same education and promotions are becoming less frequent (already before Corona, of course).
I can only explain/observe it myself that only people who were born here or bought a house 20-30 years ago actually live in the city. Then there are the true top earners of the big companies who, as you said, also earn significantly above 5k€.

I’m just honestly surprised what has become normal today. Because there are so many calculations claiming that income has risen in the same proportion as real estate prices, etc. (at least adjusted for interest). But I wouldn’t have thought back in school that I, as a supposed "top 10-15% earner" of the country, would depend on my wife working full-time.

As I said, it changes if you are willing to move 20-30 km outside the city. Although there are also many areas like the Nuremberg/Fürth/Erlangen region where so many big companies are located that you probably have to go even further out there. And under 500k€ it’s still very hard to come by.

I find it (completely neutrally) just interesting how one calculates oneself, how unrealistic previous generations calculated, and how conservatively one should calculate.

No, incomes do not rise in line with real estate prices. And yes, some are privileged because there was wealth in the family that is then passed on. Thus, these future real estate buyers have a head start. That’s just how it is! I come from a working-class family with many siblings. All studied and have good jobs. My parents have nothing to pass on. My children will receive something from us.