The Makers of the Day After Tomorrow - Baden-Württemberg State Anniversary 2012

Hello Micha,

Personally, I consider a mainly decentralized energy supply with energy storage to be the best way to accomplish the energy transition.

Smirk ... Mother Nature, keep your childlike belief :D

There has already been decentralized energy supply in the form of combined heat and power plants for quite some time. Where smaller residential areas are developed by a group of investors, it works wonderfully too – it’s a good alternative! On the open market: no chance. The problem is: you have two parties in front of you and at least 5 opinions...

Since the average German (funny enough regardless of their country of origin) likes to do their own thing, I rather rely on small-scale self-sufficiency. That doesn't bruise the individual’s self-esteem and spares their “prejudices.” Slow and steady wins the race :D

Decentralized energy storage for a residential area / a street (or whatever) – that is more profitable than batteries in the basement – but the colleagues with the storage still have some homework to do :D Until 2021? Could work!

On paper, 2021 has been set since, in my opinion, 2008 or 2009, but when I look at the new Energy Saving Ordinance 2012 or what is speculated about what should ultimately come out of it, I look at 2021 with mixed feelings.

I’m also not sure that profitability alone should be the sole focus of every consideration. For example, if initially everyone who wouldn’t feel the pain of investing an additional €30 deals with the topic of photovoltaics and storage, and only 1/3 of them make that investment... well, then this technology will become cheaper in the medium term and thus also interesting for smaller budgets. Besides that, I don’t think the subsidy funds will let this technology fall off. And... the battery isn’t that big either, comparable to a simple American fridge without a water connection.

oh yes – I’m in!! And after that, we continue in Berlin!! :p

I’ve been trying at a small scale for years; right outside my own municipal front door and I’m not getting anywhere. I always get the same answer: “what can I change as an individual”... argh. If I’m unlucky, my “inconvenient” behavior will cost me my Thursday skat evening... the local politician is not amused...

Best regards

Hello Construction Expert

Smile ... Mother Nature preserve your childlike belief

That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with childlike belief...
Even if our environmental Norbert further reduces subsidies for renewable energies (which in my opinion is necessary and good - only the implementation is catastrophic) the expansion of renewable energies will still be significantly higher in the future than the know-it-alls in Berlin wish.

The trend will permanently intensify, so that, for example, at noon there will be an oversupply of electricity (there have already been negative energy prices on the energy exchange!).
Wind farms in the north are already being shut down in the best wind conditions because the grids cannot absorb the electricity.
Even solar systems on private house roofs now have to be remotely switchable by the energy supplier because overproduction at certain times is foreseeable here as well.
The question remains what to do with the electricity...
We cannot supply all of Europe with energy at noon - not only because the necessary lines are missing.
In general, it takes a very, very long time to build new lines to bring wind power from northern Germany to the industrial regions - if they are built at all in the end...

Currently, in my opinion, two trends are emerging (both in the early stages - it will take another 5-10 years until real market maturity):
(1) Electrochemical storage of electricity - in addition to conventional batteries there are interesting developments such as vanadium redox flow batteries
(2) Converting electricity into hydrogen or natural gas and feeding it into the existing gas network.

Both technologies have their justification.
Energy suppliers (EVUs) still have the duty to guarantee supply security and electricity quality.
With increasing efficiency of electrochemical storage, it will become increasingly interesting for EVUs in the future to use these for buffering load peaks (production and consumption) in a decentralized manner.
Where should all the electricity be redirected with bright sun and good wind? And how should the load peaks in the evening during windless periods be covered even if the necessary lines can be built?
Private individuals will not join forces to build a storage system - the EVUs will still do this on their own. These storage units will be about the size of transformer stations, which are already at every corner, and we will notice them just as little as the transformer stations.

Conversion into methane gas will rather be used at large wind and solar parks (technically much more complex) - here electrochemical storage makes little sense.

Decentralized energy supply has been around in the form of combined heat and power plants for quite a while. Where smaller residential settlements are realized by an investor group, it also works wonderfully - is a good alternative! On the free market: no chance. The problem is: You have two parties sitting in front of you and at least 5 opinions...

As I said - not any investor groups, but the EVUs themselves.
Besides, there are nationwide tests running to link decentralized energy producers (mainly combined heat and power plants) into one single, virtual power plant. And that seems to be working pretty well...

Since the average German likes to do their own thing, I rely more on small-scale autarky.

Sure, a certain percentage will put their own batteries in the basement - but that will also be an insignificant share in the future. Because even private investors first look at the return! Idealists who accept a negative return are indeed the exception :D

I'm also not sure that exclusively the profitability of an investment should be the focus of every consideration.

How was it exactly again with the childlike belief??? :p

And ... the battery isn't that big either, comparable to a simple American fridge without water connection.

It's not about the size, but about the technology! :D

Investment costs vs. service life vs. return - at the moment there's still a red number... Let's see what it will be in 5 years.


Best regards
Micha :cool:

Hello Micha,

How was that exactly with childish faith again??? :p

:D

Kind regards

(He who will take a look at the whole thing at the Intersolar if he has time)

So, the Intersolar is over and he actually found the time *g*

Nice system that AZUR presented there. However, I couldn't find any objective advantages compared to all the other manufacturers who are currently launching comparable systems. Okay, maybe AZUR is really one step ahead and has a finished system and all tests completed (according to their own statement). Maybe others will really be as far along as AZUR in 3-6 months. Could be. But of course, it could also just be self-promotion – I didn’t check :p

In general, I find such energy management systems for the home a really great thing. I would almost get one myself.

Why only almost?

No matter what the manufacturer’s name is – all these systems need an integrated energy storage. Said company uses lead-gel batteries here. Sure, because no one really wants lithium-ion batteries in their house! But no matter which batteries you use – they all still have a very limited lifespan – and thus high follow-up costs – not to mention the environmental impact from their disposal.

A very well-known battery manufacturer (V****) presented a battery management system at Intersolar that significantly increases the lifespan and thus the long-term overall capacity of such storage banks. That’s a step in the right direction. However, such systems only become interesting for me when we have moved away from conventional battery technologies. New storage media are necessary – and once they reach market maturity (and are affordable) I’ll get such a system too! :D

Best regards Micha :cool: