New single-family house (KFW70)/aerated concrete vs. sand-lime brick/what to use?

  • Erstellt am 2014-01-31 08:27:19

perlenmann

2014-02-04 14:11:16
  • #1
@Björn: I meant your explanation regarding fault tolerance. That was exactly what I meant. For a gas condensing boiler, it doesn't really matter whether the flow temperature is 35 or 45 degrees.

It should say: Björn did it though (€ explained what I meant), you (€) shouldn't die stupid
 

Mycraft

2014-02-04 14:48:55
  • #2
yes, and due to the much lower total investment and interest, a condensing gas boiler should also be positioned much lower in the graph...so the image is completely incorrect...
 

perlenmann

2014-02-04 15:23:48
  • #3
The graphic only shows the consumption costs. This has nothing to do with the investment costs! But you would also recoup the additional costs of the brine heat pump after 20 years. The graphic shows this (albeit with completely incorrect consumption values and thus exaggerated differences). Although that would then be crystal ball gazing. But people don’t do that
 

€uro

2014-02-05 07:39:34
  • #4
Another answer was actually not to be expected, as it sufficiently demonstrates "expertise"
How many systems have you planned so far and how many have you measured in practical operation?

@ Michalko:
It is not the primary goal in this diagram to depict the price increases of WP electricity or gas exactly; I have standardized here, assuming a moderate 5%. No one knows how they will actually develop in the future. It was merely intended to show that they will certainly not be lower. Anyone who wants to assume different values can convert according to their own judgment.

@ Mycraft: "yes, and due to the much lower total investment and interest, a gas condensing boiler should also be placed much lower in the graphic"
Only a rough trend is shown regarding investment costs. In many cases, for example, gas condensing boilers plus connection costs with an air heat pump are often on a similar level with the same heating load. In new buildings, for gas condensing boilers, there is still the mandatory investment in a solar thermal system, which is completely eliminated for heat pumps. That a ground source heat pump with vertical drilling usually becomes more expensive is not entirely unrealistic.

The diagram's sole purpose is to illustrate that there are significant differences, that careful planning is definitely worthwhile, and that over the course of the service life, considerable consumption costs do accumulate.
It should be known that, in addition, other costs such as capital service, depreciation, maintenance, etc., arise or must be considered in a holistic view.
The vast majority of new buildings, at least in my planning, comply with the Energy Saving Ordinance standard or KfW 70, rarely KfW 55. Passive houses are rather the exception.

Best regards
 

perlenmann

2014-02-05 10:29:13
  • #5


As I said, layman, therefore zero, zero. But what does that have to do with it? How much % difference does a 10-degree increase in the flow temperature make in a gas condensing boiler? How much in a heat pump? I don't know the numbers, but I, too, know the tendency as a layman!
And if I am wrong (which I could live with) then enlighten me with a better explanation and please write a serious explanation! THAT would help everyone!

And please write why you take 15MWh/a as a basis?
 

€uro

2014-02-06 08:28:21
  • #6
Exactly, that's why you couldn't answer my question either. Gas condensing boilers and heat pumps are two completely different principles of heat generation. This results in partially different requirements and necessities. To limit it solely to the LWT is simply wrong. Moreover, it is not the LWT but precisely the heating medium temperature difference that is decisive. For heat pumps, this is a very important criterion, for gas condensing boilers rather less important. On the contrary, here somewhat higher LWT are even advantageous! Only the real heat generator effort factor is a comparative criterion, provided it concerns energy balances. For gas condensing boilers always > 1, since the actual consumption is always greater than the demand. For heat pumps < 1, since by using environmental energy the consumption is less than the demand. For direct electric heating = 1! For gas condensing boilers, this number is determined by forming the quotient of consumption at the meter and the actually used amount of energy for heating and DHW (measured with a heat meter). See my previous post. An average value from existing buildings, new construction (Energy Saving Ordinance up to Passive House). Best regards
 

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