HOAI or why architects have no interest.....

  • Erstellt am 2019-02-26 15:41:21

Lumpi_LE

2019-02-27 12:02:00
  • #1
What I meant was more about the scope. Common practice for small single-family home builders is for service phase 2 to provide a "sketch" of 2-3 variants of the room layout (since everyone here uses a CAD program, the quotation marks) and the statement "costs approx. 400€/m³ ergo 290k€". In service phase 3 you then get a nicer plan and a more precise cost calculation.
 

Bau_Bambi

2019-02-27 12:13:50
  • #2
That's fine with me, the house we have in mind is not complicated and we always bring the plans for it to the architect. We have selected an upper floor and a ground floor from various houses offered by a prefabricated house provider, which suits us perfectly and only requires minor changes.

Services are, for example, between the most expensive and the cheapest offer so far: Both have as contract subject: "New construction of a residential house with double carport"
1- Most expensive offer:
*LPH according to HOAI
1. Basic evaluation
2. Preliminary planning
3. Design planning
4. Approval planning
*Structural engineering according to §51 HOAI
*Energy consulting for KFW40(+)
Flat rate: ~€17,000 gross

2- Cheapest offer:
1. Determination of the prerequisites for solving the construction task through planning
2. Design planning
3. Approval planning
4. Structural engineering (preparation of the structural calculation and the thermal insulation certificate)
5. Preparation of documents for the drainage application
6. Execution planning (formwork and reinforcement plans)
Flat rate: ~€7,000 gross
 

Lumpi_LE

2019-02-27 12:33:45
  • #3
well, with the last one it’s just "you get what you pay for"... that’s 1 week of work for 2 people... including execution planning. You can imagine what you get there and what value it has.
 

Bau_Bambi

2019-02-27 12:41:43
  • #4
I just think: If the plans are ultimately to our satisfaction, the approval goes through, and the craftsmen can work with the plans, there is no difference, right? I was able to look at some of the properties that the cheaper architect built, and I will visit one soon. They are just "normal" houses, without great demands. In the end, my point in showing the offers was that apparently rather few architects adhere to the HOAI in the private sector? When I see that 30k net is due for a single-family house, without the service perhaps being "better," I also see why. At these prices, entering into construction is already too expensive.
 

Zaba12

2019-02-27 12:46:28
  • #5
Sorry, but more expensive does not always mean more or better performance. What use is an expensive but careless architect. Exactly none.

There are simply bad apples and gems. Unfortunately, you don’t know beforehand what you will get. The price should be the least of your concerns.
 

11ant

2019-02-28 01:08:05
  • #6
The efforts are taken into account in the levels of difficulty: standard is simple, exposed brickwork is somewhat more demanding, further on with slope location up to pile foundation in sandy soil. Fortunately, all this is only in a handful of levels, not as complex as a tax table. But case-by-case fairness was never the goal of the fee structure – after all, you should only need an architect for the building planning and not again one for the "construction site" fee determination.

The idea of using the basic scale of construction costs is at least far more appropriate than square meters, as these would not reflect the equipment. It is true that buildings become more complex to plan not only due to more expensive materials – nevertheless, the fee structure is not simply a cunning accomplice of greed.

That the HOAI no longer fits as it stands today is due to changes that were unforeseeable or not considered during its "construction." On the one hand, it originates from times when single-family houses were conceptually rather low-tech compared to today; and a "bracket creep" due to boom-driven overheated price increases was not taken into account.

The market is as free as the market participants are used to dealing with each other; the fee structure, on the other hand, is not agile enough to keep up. The consequence is a clustering of fees agreed on divergently and questioning the fee structure in terms of its timeliness.

The condition that emerges from this development is approximately as follows:

The client )
sees himself (in my opinion "spoiled by price comparison engines") as an "informed consumer." He thinks along, and as we almost read here daily in the forum, finds it normal not to come to the architect empty-handed but at least with a preliminary floor plan – i.e., from his point of view, the architect practically only has half the work left;

The architect )
faces this demand market and his fee is subject to a need to justify itself and tries to carry it into the next round in the price spiral game;

The professional liability insurance )
sees it as damaging to the "insured community" to undermine the fee level, while its performance risk, to put it kindly, rather does not decrease – alone: keyword "indemnifier."

A triangle in which basically everyone is right, or at least has a legitimate – even if not congruent with the others – standpoint.
 

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