HOAI or why architects have no interest.....

  • Erstellt am 2019-02-26 15:41:21

Fuchur

2019-02-27 10:27:04
  • #1
Without delving deeply into the very latest case law now (11ant has already indicated that there are very contradictory statements there): In principle, the HOAI is binding. There are various recognized scenarios for deviations. In particular, the following are mentioned: deviations from the scope of services of the HOAI, multiple uses of already created plans/essential partial plans, already issued final invoices. Other judgments refer to the trust protection of the client and the limited knowledge of the HOAI by private builders.

In the end, it means above all one thing: the risk of major disputes if the planning does not proceed as mutually intended. Disputes that cannot be used at that phase. The builder or the architect’s professional liability insurance will then be entitled years later in the third instance.
 

CrazyChris

2019-02-27 10:38:08
  • #2


Correct. This also has something to do with "good faith." If the architect offers the private client a fixed-price contract that is below the minimum rates of the HOAI, then he is bound by this agreement and cannot rely on the fee schedule. The private client is almost always protected by case law in this regard.
 

caddar

2019-02-27 10:56:14
  • #3


That's true, this whole construction sums thing always seems to me as if the "law of large numbers" applies to it... On average, statistically speaking, it will probably be correct that a more expensive building is also a more complex one. But when I look, for example, at the choice between plastic and wood/aluminum windows influencing the fee, I personally don't see any additional effort there. On the other hand, there might be decisions that don't cause additional costs but do require more planning effort. If both are not balanced, I end up paying more.

Friends of mine pay an architect by the hour for a house renovation; I pay according to HOAI. In my case, there is a (probably only semi-legal) cap on the maximum billable costs of €350,000. I knew these figures and basically have an upper limit that I pay for this service. If that seems acceptable to me (or I have no other offer), I can agree. So it's basically a flat rate despite HOAI.

Those same friends, however, don't know exactly where they will end up. Even though it is very likely they will end up paying less or at least not more, they are now psychologically much more constrained because they simply know every architect hour costs money. That's actually logical and kind of nonsensical, but I still see a tendency with them to agree much faster and be less critical.

So everything has its advantages and disadvantages.
 

Bau_Bambi

2019-02-27 11:30:49
  • #4
With this problem, we are currently at the stage of our planning. I, as a future client and private person, briefly read through important sections of the HOAI and thought the fees were set accordingly. Now we have 3 different offers, all of which are cheaper than those "prescribed" by the HOAI (as they are calculated based on actual effort/hours), which initially confuses a layperson. This results in 3 offers: 1- Architect service phases 1-4: €8,300 gross 2- Architect service phases 1-4, structural engineer, energy consultant with construction supervision: €14,500 gross (of which about €9,000 is for the architect) 3 - (from further away, not from our district) Architect service phases 1-5(! including execution plan), structural planning, thermal protection certificate: €6,300 gross. The question I keep asking myself: Is this now a free market or how do such fluctuations come about?
 

caddar

2019-02-27 11:37:39
  • #5
Are the offers all comparable in content? And what are they for? If one, for example, handles the tenders and the other lets you pick the craftsmen "off the cuff," that already makes a difference. It is probably a new build in your case and of the type a normal single-family house? That means all architects can rely on existing plans for modification, the energy consultant part does not have to perform an explicit thermal bridge calculation, etc. etc. If that is billed by the hour, are the offers really flat rates or are they estimates? Because I can gladly underestimate my effort and end up needing twice as many hours – bad luck.
 

Fuchur

2019-02-27 11:40:11
  • #6
We had exactly the same. The estimate of hours in the offer was significantly lower than the result.

In the end, there were 2 drafts. The first one immediately thrown away, the second one slightly refined 4 times. In the end, we ended up just below the maximum amount of the middle rate in terms of hours. And only because we simultaneously handled many "thinking tasks" and coordination with authorities ourselves and did not want to pay additional hours for that. Examples: Every email and phone call was charged at 30-60€, for the discussion of the plans before submitting the building application at the architect's office, there was a bill of 600€, for forwarding the development plan and floor plans to the geologist to obtain an offer for a ground investigation, we paid 200€.
 

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