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What advantage do all the people who want to use their vehicle battery "bidirectionally" always hope for? I just don’t see any.

Unless it’s about real grid protection. Then the whole thing should be under the control of the grid operators and not private individuals.

Except for the scenario mentioned by . Because in my environment there are some companies that offer free charging. And then exactly that happens, batteries are charged at work and discharged at home. And that is really an ecological and economic disaster.

And a few more details:

[*]Hardly any employer will provide _free_ charging options for a larger number of electric cars. Maybe 1-3 spots so they can present themselves as oh so green and great, but no more than that.

Do you have numbers for that? I know several companies where friends work that each have at least 8 charging stations.

[*]Such behavior would simply be theft and accordingly already very problematic labor law-wise. I might as well take the pencils and printer paper from the office and sell them.

How do you come up with that nonsense? If the employer lets you charge for free, that is of course no theft.

Normally, such experts are already slowed down by colleagues who also want to charge and especially just ask how it can be that the electric car is empty every day again when he only commutes between office and home.

First come, first served.

It won’t be free because that alone is a "monetary benefit." Whoever wants to enter this tax hell, go ahead.

Currently, this does not apply to car charging. Otherwise, "monetary benefit" is still cheaper because it’s only taxes for the employee compared to paying for the electricity themselves.

And as long as the state keeps its fingers out of it, I think everything is fine.

It currently doesn’t and won’t in the future.

That’s how it is. The fear that someone might get a crumb through the back door when bidirectional charging is once again typically German.

No, it’s very realistic. With all the company cars, nobody cares about battery wear, nobody cares about inverter losses, but simply about the fun of not having to buy electricity from the supplier. And energy is simply wasted...

Simply silly and we are shooting ourselves in the foot again.

Where are we shooting ourselves in the foot here? By not allowing energy waste and senseless BEV battery wear? I see it differently!

Leaving the car aside: I think it is becoming increasingly important to adapt to variable electricity tariffs. And home storage systems are a great help in this regard. For example, I can imagine that one provides x percent of the storage as a control reserve for the grid operator and gets paid for it. Or one uses smart controls oneself to use the storage during cheap electricity prices for peak times - especially in winter.

Here is an example - Our electricity price today (hourly variable):



Solar yield is rather poor today - but lots of wind. Difference 15 cents. Currently, the washing machine and dishwasher are running. Why not charge the home battery fully from the grid now and avoid the 31 cents this evening.

By the way, the price is currently at 0 cents net - the 16 cents are purely the surcharges (taxes, grid, etc.).

By not allowing energy waste and pointless BEV battery wear?

I see energy waste when wind turbines are shut down to protect the grid. We cannot avoid more variable tariffs. The question is whether we build storage centrally or decentrally. I think it will be a combination. To what extent vehicles will play a role here—well.

Solar yield is rather poor today – instead there is a lot of wind. Difference 15 cents. Currently the washing machine and dishwasher are running. Why not charge the home battery now from the grid to avoid the 31 cents this evening.

If you have a battery anyway, you can certainly play around like that.

Buying one just for that is still questionable.
If you should fully charge and discharge a 7kWh battery every day for 10 years,
that's a maximum of 25MWh (which is unrealistically high, by the way ;-) ). With acquisition costs of 5000€, you already end up at 20 cents.
The difference you can get is only 16 cents in your example. So it’s not worth it.

I see energy waste when wind turbines are switched off to protect the grid. We can’t avoid having more variable tariffs. The question is whether we build storage centrally or decentrally. I think it will be a combination. To what extent cars will play a role – well.

Whether installed centrally or decentrally doesn’t matter. What’s important is sensible control and not because someone thinks they can save 10 cents,
but truly based on the necessity for the grid.

It is an absolute mystery to me how batteries could be subsidized with taxpayer money without being fully grid-supportive.

If you look at the fact that most private batteries are simply fully charged in the morning and discharged at night, it causes more problems for the grid in the morning hours than it helps. :-(

Whether installed centrally or decentrally does not matter. What is important is sensible control and not because someone thinks they can save 10 cents. But really based on the necessity for the grid.

It is an absolute mystery to me how storage systems could be subsidized with tax money without being fully grid-compatible.

But exactly that is already reflected in the price. And control via the price (variable) is exactly what helps here. The price is cheap because there is a surplus and expensive because power plants have to be ramped up. And yes: If I can make 10 cents in winter because the storage is dead capital anyway, then I will do that. Exactly this difference prevents wind turbines from being shut down.

If you look at the fact that most private storage units are simply charged up in the morning and discharged at night, it causes more problems for the grid in the morning hours than it helps. :-(

I don't understand that. Details?

Apart from that, storage systems are becoming cheaper and cheaper.